119 – Volunteer Manager Salary & Career Paths with Megan Vixie

July 18, 2024

Episode #119: Volunteer Manager Salary & Career Paths with Megan Vixie 

In this episode of the Volunteer Nation podcast, host Tobi Johnson interviews Megan Vixie, Chief Engagement Officer at Beach Cities Health District, about volunteer manager salary levels and career paths. They discuss the importance of volunteerism, Megan’s journey in volunteer engagement, and the professional career pathway survey conducted by the Association for Leaders in Volunteer Engagement (AL!VE).  

The pair explore strategies for negotiating salaries and benefits, the importance of professional development, the creation of a job leveling document to advocate for volunteer engagement professionals, as well as highlighting actionable insights for both volunteer managers and organizational leaders. 

Volunteer Manager Salary – Episode Highlights

• [01:15] – Meet Megan Vixie: A Leader in Volunteer Engagement 
• [02:53] – Megan’s Journey into Volunteerism 
• [06:09] – The Importance of Volunteerism Today 
• [07:36] – Diving into Volunteer Management Data 
• [20:47] – Survey Methodology and Key Takeaways 
• [31:18] – Understanding Job Sizing Criteria 
• [32:31] – Using Planning Documents for Career Growth 
• [34:34] – Discussing Salary and Benefits 
• [37:31] – Insights on Compensation and Benefits 
• [39:44] – Equity in Volunteer Engagement Roles 
• [45:08] – Professional Development and Future Plans 
• [51:30] – Conclusion and Resources 

Helpful Links

• VolunteerPro Membership Community 
• Volunteer Management Progress Report 
• Volunteer Nation Episode #043: How to Tap AmeriCorps Grants & Resources with Sharon Tewksbury-Bloom
• Points of Light Conference  
• MAVA, Promoting Job Equity for Volunteer Engagement Professionals Study 
• AL!VE Professional Career Pathway Survey 
• Check Out Megan’s Website 

Contact Us

Have questions or suggestions for the show? Email us at wecare@volpro.net.

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Episode #119 Transcript: Volunteer Manager Salary & Career Paths with Megan Vixie 

Tobi: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of the Volunteer Nation podcast. I’m your host, Tobi Johnson, and I am finally back to interviews. I did a few interviews in England. You have probably heard those already. But I have also filled my slate for the next few months with fabulous guests and this fabulous guest you are going to really enjoy hearing from because she and the organization that she’s affiliated with have done some amazing work on salaries around volunteer managers, directors, coordinators, you name it, to help us standardize a little bit. And also, so that organizations really know what a fair wage is. I mean, it’s about equity folks. And so, without further ado, I want to welcome Megan Vixie to the Volunteer Nation podcast. Megan, thanks for being here. 

Megan: Thank you.  

Tobi: So let me tell you a little bit about Megan and then we’re going to get into it. There is so much here to cover. Uh, Megan Vixie used to be a volunteer pro member, so I’ve known you for, I don’t know, how many years?  

Megan: Uh, at least 10, at least.  

Tobi: At least 10! So, uh, Megan Vixie is a respected and collaborative, Executive and certified executive coach. With 15 years of leadership experience utilizing human resources strategy to execute the strategic direction of organizations. She currently serves as the Chief Engagement Officer for Beach Cities Health District, one of the largest pain preventive health agencies. I always, you know, people always in the healthcare world, we’re like, is it preventative or preventive? 

It is preventive, folks. Largest preventive health agencies in the nation and has served as the president of the Association for Leaders in Volunteer Engagement alive. Megan is responsible for all human resources management, which includes designing and implementing the infrastructure to manage BCHD’s network of more than 1500 community volunteers. 

As an executive coach, she specializes in career planning and leadership development for the emerging leader, which is such a cool side hustle. In addition to all your great work on wellness and keeping folks in Southern California well, welcome to the pod.  

Megan: Thank you so much. So happy to be here.  

Tobi: Yeah, so let’s get started. You know, that’s a great intro, but tell us a little bit more. How did you get started in the field of volunteerism? I always like to hear people’s birth stories around volunteerism, because it’s always, or almost never, I went to college and I got a degree in it, right?  

Megan: Yes, and I went to college and got a theater degree, so this is a little bit of, uh, A little bit of a variation, but I volunteered a lot when I was younger and in college, I was part of a, a service organization, um, and after I graduated, I knew that I really wanted to stay connected to nonprofits and the work that they were doing. 

 And so, I served as an AmeriCorps member for a year, and I coordinated volunteer programs for intergenerational programming. And so, once that was over, I started looking for jobs as a volunteer coordinator, which is what I was just trained to do. And that’s how I began at Beach City’s Health District. 

And I’ve really, I’ve worked here pretty much my whole career, all the way up to chief engagement officer. And now I really oversee all people management. So not just volunteers, but, uh, employees and the like. So, um, that’s kind of my origin story of how I got into this field.  

Tobi: That’s so interesting. I did not know you were a National Service member. It is a common way for folks to get a taste. I always feel like National Service, for those of you who are not in the U. S., AmeriCorps, Vista, well, Vista more, it’s not always someone who’s emerging, but AmeriCorps, a lot of folks end up, you know, AmeriCorps ends up being sort of the talent preparation for the nonprofit sector. 

There are so many folks that do national service and national service gives you a little bit of extra boost and we I did with Sharon Tewksbury Bloom, I did an AmeriCorps grants, I think it was. I’m going to put that link in the show notes. But, you know, folks get some stipend and get some college reimbursement. 

But what it really does, I think, is people Is train people up to step into the sector and I think I’m not sure how what percentage of the nonprofit sector is, you know, comprised of people with AmeriCorps background, but I’m pretty sure it’s significant.  

Megan: Yes, and I have, I have met a lot of us through this work just nationally and learning that many did start in this space. 

So, it’s a great training ground and just experience and. I really felt like even though I had a theater degree, I wasn’t sure what I was going to do right outside of, uh, college. And, and it really did prepare me for a career in volunteer engagement, which I didn’t really know existed before spending time in AmeriCorps and seeing that, hey, this can actually be a job. 

People do this for a living, and I want to do this for a living. So that’s where I just started looking everywhere I could to see who has these, these roles. And so, I’m very fortunate. to land where I did and, and enjoy kind of being in this, this industry for the last, you know, almost 20 years.  

Tobi: Yeah, yeah, seasoned pro. So, tell me, you know, you’ve been around the field for a long time, and you sort of do the best of both worlds. You work with paid staff as well as volunteers. Why do you think volunteerism is important, especially now?  

Megan: Well, I think we all know volunteers really help achieve an organization’s mission. 

They help fill gaps, they can expand our capacity, but really when volunteers are a part of the community or the cause that they’re a part of, there’s this intrinsic motivation and connection that really goes beyond what an employee can offer. You know, volunteers really take up the mission, you know, as their own and it’s on such a deeper level. 

You know, employees can move around, they can still be connected to the cause for sure, but when you’re in that community or you’re, you really have, uh, that deep sense of connection, you really live it. And so, volunteers, you know, um, I hope one day is that, you know, when, when volunteering becomes part of this global culture and we meet someone for the first time, it’s not just going to be asking them, hey, where do you work? 

You know, but we’re going to ask, where do you volunteer? You know, what are you passionate about? And that’s really how we’re going to change the world when it comes to utilizing volunteers. You know, we get engaged in what we’re passionate about. We find a way to serve, uh, and we give back, you know, what we’re passionate about. 

It really connects back to our, our purpose of, you know, why we even exist. If we want to be existential about it.  

Tobi: Uh huh. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I mean, that is a human drive. It’s one of the key human needs is to have purpose in our lives and volunteering supplies that. Let’s switch gears and really talk dive into this data. 

So, in April 2023, Alive, the Association for Leaders in Voluntary Engagement, which we in short, we call Alive, conducted the professional career pathway survey. And I was fortunate enough to be at your presentation at the Points of Light conference. And immediately when I saw you later, I said, Okay, can I have you on the podcast, please? 

And so luckily, she’s like, Yeah, for sure. So, um, you know, you packed the house. There was a really great, engaged audience. People were really wanting to know, you know, what, do salaries look like, you know, we’ve asked in the volunteer management progress report, we don’t ask about a salary every year because it doesn’t change that much. 

But every year we don’t ask, people ask us in the open-ended comments, like, why didn’t you ask about a salary? But we don’t do half of what you all have done with this survey. And so it is on a whole other level that I want to share with our audience. So. Talk to me about how the survey came about. Did you believe there was a pay equity gap? What were the goals of the survey? Tell us how it started in the first place.  

Megan: Sure. So Alive as a professional membership association, we conducted a lot of member surveys annually and we heard a lot of feedback around how to advocate for the role of the volunteer engagement professional. People wanted to move up. 

They wanted to know how they could really stay in this career. and industry at their organization. And so, and even, you know, through your survey with the volunteer management progress reports, I know you’ve looked into, you know, how long the individuals stay in the field and, you know, many are not, or it’s very, It could be a yes or no, you know, it’s, it’s one or, you know, that, you know, you got a 50, 50 shot here staying, uh, in this field and wanting to know what the reasons were and, and many, even in our members have said, you know, career progression, we can’t seem to get, there’s a ceiling that we can’t. 

A bypass, then we’re not able to, if I needed to grow or needed to get paid more, I have to move into another area in my organization, or I must take on different responsibilities and lessen my, my role more so in volunteer engagement. So, we wanted to really be able to arm professionals with information to show, yeah, there is career progression here. 

And what does that look like? You know? So, uh, I think that’s really kind of the struggle for organizations too, right? They don’t know how to pay for this position. Uh, many times the volunteer engagement professional is the one that’s the only one at the organization. You may only have one person. And so sometimes you’re just volunteer coordinator, like forever. 

And that’s just the role that they have. Whether or not they get more responsibilities, maybe even sometimes more pay, the organizations don’t actually know how to treat this job as a job that grows. Um, and so with that lack of understanding, and if an organization can’t really hire their own compensation consultant to do all this work and find out what it means in their specific organization, pay really can be all.  

And that’s really kind of what the, the survey showed in itself and what you said before to it may not change but it also shows sometimes it doesn’t say like if a coordinator you know they have the same kind of average pay and then directors you know are above ours were all over the place and so it really straights you know various reasons why that is as well but we wanted to kind of get some standardization. 

Tobi: Yeah, that’s fantastic. So, it’s not just about pay equity, it’s about progression of responsibilities and certainly people can move in and out of jobs and interestingly, you know, in my 25 years in nonprofits and public sector, I don’t think I ever had volunteer coordinator as part of my job title at all. 

However, you know, I think I, I started my first quote unquote job was an unpaid intern back when I was before graduate school and went all the way up to program director. But, you know, almost every program that I started up, many I started from scratch, I engaged volunteers. So I was working with volunteers and I was building volunteer infrastructure, et cetera. 

So it was always part of the role and not always the job description. But I think you’re right. I think people. There is a bit of a glass ceiling for leaders of volunteers where they just kind of get stuck and there’s so much more that they can offer. I think the maybe the hidden gem, silver lining or hidden gem of this might be that executives and those executives that are listening, look for this in the research that you may start to see additional things that leaders of volunteers can take on in your organization strategically. 

Often, we’re not really, as leaders of volunteers, what we’ve found is not necessarily invited to the strategic table when strategic planning is happening, even though they’re supplying a strategic human resource for the organization. That’s just one example. So, if you’re a leader of volunteers listening, share this with your executive director. 

And if you’re executive director, look, you know, make sure you get the report and check it out. When you put together a research study or a survey. You set specific goals of what you’re trying to achieve. You’ve given us kind of an overview. What were those specific goals you were trying to reach? And why did you decide to conduct this study right now? 

Was it that you were hearing from your members? Did you feel like we were at a crucial time in our history or evolution as a field? Tell us a little bit about that.  

Megan: Yes. All of the above. Everything you do. And I do think it has been. talked about a lot over the last several years in all the spaces that we’ve, we’ve been in with fellow volunteer engagement professionals of how do we level up? 

My thought always is, you know, and being an HR professional as well, HR experienced this like 20 years ago of like trying to like beat down the door to the boardroom and say like, let me in here, uh, because I have a lot to offer and I’m not just about transaction, I’m about transformation. I can really be strategic in how you leverage your people. 

And again, volunteers are a people resource and a strategy to achieve an organization’s goals, objectives, its mission. It’s integral to that. And so, what we were hoping to do with the results of this, uh, survey and create a report was to get what’s called a job leveling document. So, we wanted to show what the entry point was for a volunteer engagement professional. 

Just like you said, I was an intern. It starts at intern. on our job leveling document, and it moves all the way up to top executive to demonstrate that, uh, you can see what competencies and skill level is needed for each of these positions, including your top executive, and what salary is commensurate with that level of experience and the job duties that are assigned. 

So, we want to show the entire progression of how you can have a career in this industry. And, and, conducting this, not only because our members are asking for it, but the Department of Labor also is opening its comment period for the Occupational Outlook Handbook. And so, what this is, the handbook really provides job descriptions, salary information. 

It gives you projections for job growth for a specific job. And right now, we don’t have one for volunteer engagement professionals 

Which one is the closest? And they said HR specialist because you specialize in volunteers. So that’s the one place you’re going to find it in a job that they’re saying, well, this is the one that is for you. And we all know it’s, it’s different because it’s, there’s so much nuance to it, uh, that we wanted to be able to provide information when the comment period opens when they say, okay, what other jobs should we look at? 

Or do we need to get more information somewhere? So, we wanted to be able to have our own survey and results to be able to show that. So that’s, you know, one piece why we did it as well. I know you asked too, like how, you know, we can use it. And I heard you talk about, hey, share this with your boss. 

And, you know, for the individual, you know, it’s kind of a three-pronged approach of how we wanted to use it right at the individual level. We want people to use this information to develop their own career plan, how they want to move up. into the next level of this role. So, if you’re a coordinator and you want to become a manager, you can look at our job leveling document. 

You can see the skills, the competencies that you need to develop to move up. Are you there yet? Can you show me that? And then you can advocate for that. And then at the organizational level, yes, have those conversations with your boss. Um, they may not know that, you know, there’s a way to move up and progress here. 

And so, you can say and look at this and whether or not the work you’re doing now is aligned with your job pay or and your title. Like I said in the survey we saw there was so much inconsistency with pay and titling. So even on the entry levels, like assistant or associate positions, they were paid the same as a coordinator. 

We weren’t seeing a lot of variation, and you know, you know, we can infer that many have been in their job a long time. They may get more duties. They may get a higher salary. They’re not getting a title change. They’re just, they are what they are. And inversely, those that are on the higher career level projector, and it’s like the director, the managers, then we’re starting to see kind of this compression where they’re kind of all the same. 

They’re not, we’re not seeing a variation even in some of the job duties. So that really tells us people aren’t really understanding or how to classify the difference between. What is the director supposed to be doing versus a manager, a senior director, you know, so all these pieces are outlined in our job leveling documents so you can see what the variation is. 

What a great resource for HR directors at nonprofits, right? Like you said, nobody’s going to go out and do a compensation study for one position, right? Nobody’s going to do that. The other thing I think is interesting when you Talk about the job progression all the way up to executive level. I don’t think we should forget that our executive directors are also leaders of volunteers. 

I mean, they’re leading boards, they’re leading sometimes advisory groups, they’re leading committees sometimes. You know, the relationship is a little bit different, more nuanced. I think obviously your board can fire your executive director, but they are leaders of volunteers, even though they don’t necessarily think of it that way. 

So, I think that’s, you know, I love that you included at the very top, the top executive, because it still has that element, right, of that job.  

Yeah, and why would we not consider ourselves able to become the executive director or the CEO of an organization based on our skills and our experience and what we’ve learned in this role. 

Why would we not be worthy of moving into that role either? So, I think we really must showcase that you, you can do that. You’re developing these skills that are transferable. Um, that I am a person of that as well, you know, as you move up, you don’t always probably stay with just one industry or role, like usually in smaller or midsize organizations, you’re going to take on other duties here and, and be responsible for other components that are at an organizational level. 

So you can demonstrate all your skills are transferable to pick up those things too. And, and become eventually the CEO or the executive director.  

Tobi: Absolutely. I mean, I remember when I was working in nonprofits, my entire career, nonprofit or public sector, state, federal, et cetera, I remember I used to have a three-year plan. 

So where did I want to be in three years? And then I would think about what, okay, what transferable skills do I want to gain on the job right now that’ll get me there? I mean, I, and I would look for opportunities, like, oh, well, I should take on, you know, they’re looking for staff to run this project. I’m going to check it out. 

And then sometimes, you know, faking it, fake it till you make it, like taking on something that’s a stretch for you, and then be able to, you know, really learn from that experience. I remember a few things I, I took on where I was like, I can do that. Yeah. You know, ultimately, I could, but it took me a little bit of research behind the scenes to figure it out, but. 

I think it’s fantastic. And it gives people a roadmap, right? You don’t have to do it all. It organizes things so that you can really have a clear roadmap and try to identify where you are and then figure out what, what’s your next step. Tell us about the survey methodology. I’m a geek for research. 

So, I would love to know who did you invite to participate? How, how did you sort the data? What were the limitations on what the research study? And then we’re going to get into some key takeaways.   

Megan: So, since AL!VE is a national association, we worked a lot through the channels that we had available to us so we could try to get the broadest reach possible. 

Where can we find all of our volunteer engagement professionals to take the survey? So aside from our members, we also have local associations for volunteer engagement professionals that we reached out to for their members. We worked with service enterprise hubs, you know, that are also working with volunteer engagement professionals and partners like, like you or the, you know, the Council for Certification and Volunteer Administration, American Service Commissions. 

I mean, we really try to work through all the networks we could to spread the survey out there and get as much feedback as we could. So, through that we received 461 complete responses, and we did have limits of who can participate in the survey. So, one, we wanted to limit it to U.S. residents because this would really support our advocacy work in working with the Department of Labor for our job codes. 

We really wanted to just keep it national for the U.S. and then we had criteria for individuals completing it that they had to spend at least 20 percent of their time in volunteer engagement. So, we wanted it to be, you know, a significant amount of their time, knowing that the more you move up, in an organization, you may have other responsibilities, but you still had a core obligation to volunteer engagement. 

You had to spend at least 20 percent of your time there. And then we wanted to exclude any consultants or vendors in the field, you know, that they, you know, sell products or services for volunteer engagement activities. We really wanted it to be the practitioners, those that are actively working, uh, with volunteers, uh, to achieve their organization’s mission. 

We made sure that, you know, we asked those questions up front so we could kind of, uh, exclude anyone that, that didn’t meet that criteria.  

Tobi: Yeah, and it is so important to focus on the right people so you can, you know, you have a clear picture of who the population is. So, let’s jump into key takeaways. You talked a little bit about how you started seeing, you know, that there’s not a rhyme or reason to pay. 

Also, not really a rhyme or reason necessarily to job title. What surprised you about the data and then what kind of confirmed what you already thought?  

Megan: Yeah, so one was, you know, when we talk about this job leveling document, it means that we really also need to get a clear idea of the competencies and duties that, uh, volunteer and get engagement professionals are performing at each level. 

And so that way we can classify the ones that are most important and that are needed at each level, and then we can create. definitions around the degree of difficulty, you know, if you will, for each of those competencies. So that way they need to demonstrate that at whatever job or the level that they’re at. 

So, what was surprising about that was we initially thought there would be more variation. in the competencies. And instead, we really found nine competencies that were almost key for every level from, you know, the entry level to the executive level. But there is a different degree of difficulty for each as you move up.  

It was really great to showcase that. So, duties like, you know, your recruitment, recognition and retention, training, all these things really. still play a role at each level that you are engaged in volunteer work. Um, but things like communication, um, database management and record keeping or program design and development, all of those still hold true for each of these positions. 

So, it was just interesting to see these emerge, not only from, you know, what people ranked when we gave them competencies, what they ranked was most important, but they also just wrote out their top five job responsibilities, which was interesting that many were the same. Uh, no matter what they did, they kind of fell into these, these buckets. 

That was surprising and kind of makes it a little bit more streamlined now that we’re, we’re looking at a career progression. What really confirmed, what we already thought, right, is the salary is all over the place. So, we really knew that’s why we wanted to engage a compensation consultant because we knew if we just asked for the information, what, what do you get paid? 

It’s going to be all over the place. And even when you try to segment it, it’s not going to give you clear cut pathway to, oh, here’s the average, what you need to pay for this job and this job. So. We really needed to get an idea from a consultant so they could see, okay, well, what people are, are reporting, but then based on all the information they gave us about what they do for their job. 

Now we’re going to look at, you know, different job codes and everything that is available in various salary surveys to get the closest match. So, then we’re able to provide on a national scale, at least a starting point for salary. And then you can, uh, what we also gave was pay differential by state. So that way, if you’re looking at our kind of national salary structure, you can see whether, you know, based on the state that you’re in, you can kind of make some adjustments to that too. 

So, there’s all the information we have available, but we really wanted to give people a starting point in the salary just to start having those conversations.  

Tobi: So was it difficult to, since there’s such a, there’s competencies or capabilities, these key ones, and it’s really level of difficulty. Did you have a challenge trying to describe the nuance from one level to the next in terms of level of difficulty? How did you all approach that? That, that seems to me to be difficult to do.  

Megan: Yeah. When you look at the job leveling document, I always tell people, look at the first word, which is the verb. The verb helps you. What it gives you a sense of the difference and the difficulty that is available, right? So if you were looking at something like communication, you know, at an entry level, you know, it could just say like, Oh yeah, you. 

You can deliver structured responses to emails or messages. But as you move up, right, now you’re talking about creating content, uh, and now you’re talking about, you know, your editing skills or producing marketing materials. And then you’re going to deliver presentations or reports. I mean, you start looking at like the actual key verbiage that is being used to showcase the variation, because if you were using the same ones for everything, then it just looks like you’re doing the same level of difficulty. 

So, you kind of want to demonstrate you get more narrowly focused on the entry, and then it starts broadening your scope. And that’s why we also have what we call job sizing criteria also included in this, because you kind of need to understand the ability and autonomy people are given. in roles as they move up and what level of experience, all those pieces. 

Tobi: Tell us about job sizing. What does it mean? I’m pretty sure folks aren’t familiar with that term unless they work in HR.  

Megan: Yeah, so job sizing criteria refers to kind of the factors and standards that are used to evaluate. a job, you know, based on things like the organization size or complexity, the importance of the role at the organization. 

But it also helps to determine the appropriate compensation given the autonomy and responsibility of that role and where it fits in with the organizational structure. So, when you look at our job leveling document, um, you’ll not only see the competencies that I mentioned, but you’re also going to see the independence or autonomy given, you know, for that role. 

You’ll see the type of direction that they’re given from, you know, their, their supervisor who they report to. So, like, for example, entry level positions, like an intern or an assistant, they’re going to get really close to supervision. But as you move up, you’ll see that these roles get limited supervision or given general or broad direction, you know, like a CEO or an. 

An executive director is going to be told, like, make this happen. And that’s going to be the direction they’re given. Uh huh. This is like an assistant is going to be told, I need you to email this person and do X, Y, Z. Like they’ll be told very specifically. And then you’ll have your years of experience and the type of experience you need to have as well as the level of education and certifications that go along with each of those jobs and the level. 

Tobi: Oh, that’s fantastic. I mean, people will be able to locate themselves. It may not be, you know, when you shared this at Points of Light, I could see folks don’t, couldn’t necessarily place themselves in one row. They sort of had, there’s a little bit of an art to it. To figure out what would make the most sense, what, any advice to folks when they’re, and gang, we’re going to link to this in the show notes, so you’ll be able to download these documents, but, uh, and these resources, which are so fantastic. 

Any advice for folks when they’re looking at this job leveling document on how they should approach it, how they might, uh, best locate themselves, especially if they’re finding themselves spread across multiple levels?  

Megan: Yeah, I mean, you really want to look at where, if you’re just trying to look at a point in time, where am I am now? Look where you kind of meet most of the criteria as well as the competencies and the work that you’re being, you know, asked to do, right? And so that way you can say like, okay, I mostly fall in this manager role, but I’m only, you know, classified right now as a supervisor, but I do so much more. 

And so it gives you kind of that space to look at that. I think if people want to move up, the job sizing criteria can tell you what you need to have to do that. So, do I have enough level, do I have enough years of experience? And again, years of experience to me, it just showcases, it gives you kind of an idea. 

On average, this is what people have. It doesn’t mean you absolutely have to have that. Usually, your resume or your experience of what you did with your years, uh, speaks for itself. So, if you only have one to two years, but you’ve done so many things that someone probably that has been in the field for five or ten years had experience with, that’s great. 

You can showcase that. This will just give you an idea, right? And the type of direction you’re provided. If you’re someone who needs absolute close supervision and you have difficulty making decisions on your own, you probably need to work on that if you want to become a manager. So, this will tell you, I, at this point, if I’m a manager, I need limited supervision, which means I’m not going to have a boss that I’m going to go to, for, to get approval for everything. 

It will really kind of help guide someone on what they are, where they need to progress and what level they need to be at if that’s where they want. To move up.  

Tobi: Yeah. Yeah, that’s fantastic. And yeah, planning document. I mean, even sitting down with your boss and saying, okay, what areas do you believe that I am excelling in and what areas do I need to work on? 

I could even use this document in your annual review. Or, you know, even to start the conversation. And then I always like to add what resources do I need to get there? Right? Because folks, we often think about our professional development as a personal thing, but it’s also impacting our organizations as we grow our skills. 

So does our impact grows and our organizations benefit more. And I, sometimes I think we don’t make the case enough for that, that like, hey, you know what, I’ve, I’ve learned this new skill is how it’s going to benefit our organization and our work together. And I think we need to make, take that second step and have that part of the conversation happens.  

Tobi: So, let’s take a quick break and let’s talk a little bit about pay after the, after the break. I know folks want to talk about salary, so we’ll get into more of the specifics. So, let’s take a pause for my chat about volunteer manager salary levels and career paths with Megan Vixie. We will be right back.  

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Tobi: Okay, gang. We are back with Megan Vixie to continue our discussion of volunteer managers, salary levels and career paths. Let’s talk about salary and benefits. You did a fair amount of work on this and we’re able to really parse it out. 

Tell us some of the top line takeaways and maybe some of the key numbers because I know people are going to want to hear numbers. Always.  

Megan: Always. So. We did engage a compensation consultant who used, like I said, various salary surveys available. A lot of people had asked, okay, well, what, what did you use? 

And what, you know, is all in our report. But mostly, he is the North American Industry Classification System, the NAICS. As well as standard industry codes. Uh, and those are recognized by the Department of Labor, the IRS, the SEC. I mean, these are ones that, uh, are standardized for us. So that really helped build the salary structure that can be used for these roles. 

We were able to, like I said, when you look at it from abroad perspective, what people were reporting, right? That it was kind of all over the map. Then when we really started creating the salary structure based on these codes, then we were able to kind of get those average and ranges, you know, for each of these levels and show kind of that progression. 

So, like the next level up could be about a 15 percent difference or 20 percent difference. So, it kind of gives you that opportunity to see just on a baseline. For a 10 million organization, because again, you have to realize with salary, there’s a lot of other factors that come into play. 

If it’s a manager job and that manager job pays on average 86, 000, that can be based on what size the organization is, what the, the key role is, how, how much what the manager level is doing. So again, all these things give you an average baseline. People could say, well like I do more than this. 

All right, well, then that’s great. There’s a lot of skills that are compensable outside of this that you may add to this role. Maybe you’re in charge of social media for your organization. That’s a whole separate thing that can be considered in your, your role. So especially if you are doing multiple things at your organization and not just volunteer engagement. 

Remember that this salary structure focuses on a volunteer engagement professional that for the most part is doing this as the key component of their job. Even though when you move into like an executive, top executive role, uh, we know that they’re not just going to be doing volunteer engagement. 

However, they are going to implement that and integrate it into the rest of their work, uh, as a key strategy. So that’s where, uh, the salary kind of structure came to be and then people can utilize that as a starting point. Uh, I also heard feedback, you know, when we were at the conference that, you know, someone said, well, my organization isn’t going to go for this. 

Like I’m looking at this and they, they’re not going to pay me for this. And I said, okay, well, they can say that they can look at the data and the salaries and the money and say, oh, we don’t pay this much. Okay. At least you have now the job leveling document to say, here’s all the things that I do at my level. 

And who else is at this level at this organization? And what do you pay them? Because then we can go just on what’s based at the organization. We all must make decisions when it comes to pay, whether we feel, is it enough for us? You know, and someone and being in HR and having a lot of pay conversations with employees. 

I don’t take offense to this at all. Everybody must do what they need to do because they have different values of what they need to do. You know, money for some need to pay off their loans from school. Others want to create a financial legacy for their children. I mean, these are all wonderful things that people consider in terms of their pay. 

Others are fine not getting paid, whatever, because it’s more about the work or the impact they’re making and pay is not as much of a factor in their life. That’s great too. All these things, people have to consider whether or not the organization is the right fit for what they, they are looking for, or they need to look elsewhere, uh, that can fit what they are hoping to achieve in their compensation as well as any other factors that they find important. 

Salary is only one piece, and that’s the one that we really focus a lot of time and energy on. But there’s so much. research out there that really says, while we always say salary is important, when you ask us to rank all the other things that we find important in a job, it’s not usually the top one. So, we must really look at everything and is the organization the right fit. 

But it doesn’t mean we can’t have these conversations about it and let our organizations know what we’re looking for and hopefully we can find it there.  

Tobi: Well, I think from my point of view, and this is just my point of view, everybody has their own perspectives on this and what salary means to them. 

For me, it really means That there’s equity amongst the job, the work done and for me as a field, we need to get better at that. You know, I know Mava did way back when, several years ago, Mava, an organization in Minnesota did a survey with HR comparing HR professionals with volunteer managers and development professionals. 

And we were, you know, paid way less than the development folks. When I think about that, no ding on development folks, but what’s harder to get somebody to Pull out their credit card and plug in, you know, on an app, a donation or to pull out their checkbook and make a donation or to say, okay, I’m going to set aside dedicated time every month to give to this organization and I’m going to rearrange my life to do so and I’m going to spend money on travel to get there to commute and I’m going to put up with whatever that the challenges that are presented by that role. 

It might be emotional challenges. It might be organizational challenges. It might be personality challenges. There’s always something, right? Although volunteering can be very joyful, it also has some challenges sometimes. And I look at that and I go, Hmm. Which is harder. I know. And, and to keep people coming back. 

Now, I know fundraising is difficult and it’s a skill set as well. I’m not saying it’s not, but I don’t think that I just don’t think that volunteer engagement is so much easier, or the competencies are so much lower that They should be paid differently that that that type of role should be paid differently. 

I also, you know, with the job leveling document, I think people are doing a lot more managerial type tasks than is often considered in their job title. Um, there’s so much we do to, in terms of managing people and coaching people, you know, we’re leading, we’re training others, we’re leading our coworkers, helping them understand, we’re internal consultants around volunteer engagement because nobody else knows how to do it. 

So, there’s a, there’s high level, it’s, you know, it’s not just. sprinkling fairy dust and having people come from the community as sometimes people think it is. But, you know, for me, that that’s the crux of it for me is really like, is there equity within your own organization? And not every organization has 10-million-dollar budget, you know, some are smaller. 

And, you know if you’re bringing in more volunteers, you’re bringing in more money usually. So, there’s that as well. So, you have a direct line to the bottom line of the organization often. So, you know, for me that, that’s something that really sort of, you know, is a value for me that people are treated equitably for the work that they do. 

Megan: Yes, 100, 100 percent agree with that because you will have those people that say, oh, it doesn’t matter to me what I get paid. And when I’ve, I’ve heard that said, well, that’s great for you. And as an organization, we must demonstrate, you know, that we, we are thinking equitably across the board. 

If you leave one day, like, you know, then, I have to fill this job and the job is the job and I want to make sure that we’re paying it appropriately based on the market and based on, you know, being a competitive organization, and, and all those components. So, I think it is very important and, and I agree, and I remember that survey. 

I was part of that study with Mava, and I think what it really demonstrated, again, is a lack of understanding of the role. The top executives, not clear. on what this role can do. And so, we can say that we want to educate them. And I remember them in that survey asking CEOs, why is a volunteer engagement professional not at the table with the rest of your, you know, these other roles? 

And they said, demonstrate it to me, show me why, because I haven’t seen it. And I think that’s key anecdotal information that shows me why this should be here. Show me why this person can strategize and move this organization to the next level. And so, we have an obligation too for ourselves on the individual advocacy level to demonstrate that, uh, to showcase that we have these competencies, we have these abilities, and if we don’t have them, we need to get them. 

That’s why this job leveling document does give you that roadmap to say, do I have gaps and how do I not only get the, uh, the experience and the training that I need, but now I need to be able to vocalize that. I need to show that I can do this through my work and be able to speak to that as well. 

So, not only my boss, but my boss’s boss and my boss’s boss’s boss also can see the value that I’m bringing.  

Tobi: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, we are speaking as a there’s strength in numbers, right? We can collectively level up if we’re all our voices are heard or trying to make our voices heard. The other area of compensation you asked about was benefits. 

And that’s another way to get compensation. I mean we are often I’ll hear from volunteer pro members that they’re paying for their own memberships. And I was surprised to see in your benefits that membership of associations, et cetera, was one of the top things that was compensated or a part of a benefits package. 

It’s another way to get at getting resources for yourself. What were, what did you learn from when you asked about benefits? What surprised you about the responses or what are some key takeaways?   

Megan: So, with benefits, um, one of the things that was surprising, we did ask if people got bonuses. Because it was, we were curious whether there was additional compensation that was being received outside of just their salary. 

And so, we found that 20 percent receive some type of bonus. So, whether it’s a discretionary bonus or it might be tied to goals, um, or productivity, you know, they have something that they have to, to hit, um, they, 20%, one in five, some type of, you know, incentive or bonus. program as well. And then, you know, the standard things like medical dental vision, you know, your health benefits, uh, retirement plan there, you know, most people have all those things. 

They’re being offered that if they’re eligible for, for that, for their benefits. Um, but when it really came to training and education, almost 40 percent said that their organizations are paying for their professional licenses or certifications. So, things like getting your CVA, uh, they’re supporting all those things, but 73 percent said they did pay those dues and memberships to their association. 

So, I think when. They’re available, that’s something that, uh, because this role isn’t something that is so understood or, or there’s so much information for training education that when you find it people are willing to, the organizations are willing to pay for it. So, their volunteer engagement professional can continue to develop. 

About 38 percent said they do have education assistance offered. So, if they wanted to go back to school, they would have some type of assistance for that. You know what they’re receiving, um, maybe more. So, I’m just going to say that. And in that category, we also have all the staff that are available to kind of help us sort of kind of provide like basic information. 

They said that they do get a discretionary amount of money for development. So, some would say, yes, our organization gives me 1, 000 and I can spend it on whatever development I would like to have this year. So, they get some type of discretionary amount for that, or they have some type of internal program that their employees can go through for training or, or job coaching or other development. 

So that’s kind of a breakdown of when we asked, like, you know, we wanted to know what, what people, you know, when it comes to their professional development, how supportive are their organizations? So that’s typically the way you’ll find them.  

Tobi: Yeah. And it’s interesting. A lot of it’s standard across the board for all employees, but some of these things you could negotiate. I could see using some of your tools, That you’ve developed with this study when people are negotiating a new job as well, people are moving around a bit, especially now, and I think as the economy starts to strengthen again and bounce back, I think, you know, some organizations are downsizing or have been downsizing and we do have a labor shortage in the nonprofit sector, at least in the U.S., but I think as we rebuild and people start shifting around and people start having job openings, these are great resources when you’re negotiating your next job.  

Even job titles, salary, benefits, et cetera, it’s a, they’re, you know, and to be able to have them and to make the case, you know, often we’re just kind of guessing and kind of, oh, well, I think I’m worth X, Y, Z, you know, but if you can actually make the case, it’s actually helpful to the HR, folk who are hiring you as well. 

Megan: Yeah, and I will say a little like insider tip, uh, from like the HR side is that, you know, a lot of times it’s hard to put more money towards salary, right? And we equate salary with recognition or value. of an employee, um, instead of looking at total compensation. So what else are we giving the employee outside of salary? 

When we talk about, you know, maybe you get set, you have your set salary, but you’re paying for your own conference or you’re paying for your own memberships when you could probably negotiate that with your organization. And it’s probably more willing to put that in training, an education budget versus straight into salary because they know where it’s going right? 

And that’s the investment in you as an employee to develop you. And that investment should then be able to provide, uh, the organization. even more right when you invest in your people. So that’s really a place where you can have more negotiation power because some might may say, oh, we can’t give you a raise this year. 

We can’t do that promotion. Okay. But can you help continue to develop me and I would like an investment in me, and I want to go to this conference. I want to get this certification. I want, you know, if you ever look at my name, I’m collecting the alphabet behind me because I love certification through everything, and my organization has always been supportive of that. 

So, I can continue to grow and develop as a person and that’s an investment that they’re spending on me too. So, we need to consider those things as well, not just salary.  

Tobi: Yeah, and I think connecting those investments to how they’re going to directly benefit, you know, volunteer engagement at the organization is helpful. 

You know, I’m going to use this to do X, Y, Z to take this leap forward or this step forward. This has been a fantastic conversation, Megan. I really appreciate you joining us today. So many takeaways and gang for the salary, specific salary numbers by both state and by in the job, job level, all that good stuff you can find on AL!VE’s website and we’ll put that link in, but tell us what’s up next for Alive and, uh, your important research for the field. 

Megan: Sure. So, while we’ve provided kind of these findings, you know, with all the data and our reports and these tools, there’s still a lot of information we have that we get to drill down further. So, our committee that we have, uh, you can expect to see from us some additional supplemental reports that can provide just more information about things that people were interested in knowing more about. 

We also received over a hundred job descriptions from the participants in this survey. So, another component that we want to work on is to help create a kind of a bank of job descriptions. Good examples for volunteer engagement professionals. So, they can use this to help either craft their next role or better supplement their current job description so it’s more accurate. 

And that’s something that they can use and have at their disposal for their organization. So just another. advocacy piece for them to be able to, to have. And then of course, you know, we’re going to be working on that Department of Labor open comment period. Um, I believe it’s just opened. It opened while we were at the conference. 

So we were, well, we didn’t know. So, we were happy about that. So, we’re working, uh, through that as well to advocate for, uh, our profession on a national level too

Tobi: So, when does the comment period end and when do you find out what’s happened?  

Megan: Yeah, so I know it, uh, it ends mid-August, and I don’t remember the quite, the date, but it’s open for two months, so, uh, about, you know, mid-June it opened and then, mid-August it’ll close. 

So, AL!VE will be pushing out more information to all volunteer engagement professionals so they can also advocate because they can provide a comment as well to say, hey, I really, I’m a volunteer engagement professional. This is what I do, and I want to have a job code. I want to know this information. 

That’s something that we’ll be pushing out, uh, as well, just like we did for our, our survey so we can get the word out. Um, so you’ll be seeing that fairly soon. We have a task force that’s been working on this behind the scenes, getting ready for this comment period. So that information will be out shortly. 

Tobi: Excellent. Excellent. So let me ask you one question before we wrap up. What are you most excited about in the year ahead?  

Megan: Well, Tobi, you know, professional development is my jam, so I am really looking forward, uh, on a personal level to continue to help volunteer engagement professionals get the leadership development that they need to move to the next level. I also co-facilitate AL!VE’s mentor program. We’ve, we’ve matched over a hundred mentees with professionals in our field to just take them to the next level. Uh, so I’m just really excited to continue that. And also, AL!VE’s hybrid conference that is coming in the fall. 

The theme this year is creating influence in your organization. You know, thinking beyond a seat at the table. So how are we influential? So, this is going to be a great conference that ties back to all the work that we’re talking about. It’s not just about skills development for our field. To me, that’s very, that can be very transactional and it’s great for us to learn all that. 

How can we be more efficient and effective in actually creating that impact? delivering on our job responsibilities, but how do we elevate ourselves, our critical thinking, our, our strategy, you know, how do we do all of those things so we can be ready to move into the next role that presents itself and we can be even more strategic in our organization.  

So, I’m just really looking forward to all these development opportunities that are, are coming up, uh, this way right now for our field. So, it’s not just about how do we recruit better. How do we train better? Those are all great, but like, how do we get to the next level? How do we be seen as a strategic, and critical member of an organization’s leadership team.  

Tobi: Yeah, absolutely. And I’ve seen it happen, you know, I’ve seen it happen with some of our Volunteer Pro members where They’ve been a member for a while and then suddenly guess what? I got invited to this meeting or I’m part of the strategic planning process where I never was before or hey, I got a new FTE or hey, you know, this was approved with ease. 

And I didn’t have to really fight for it. People really saw the reasoning behind it. And I think that all comes, yes, it comes from skillset. Yes. It comes from the results that you’re delivering for your organization, but a lot of it is really about your leadership, your confidence, how you’re communicating your impact and how you’re helping others, you know, really supporting others.  

You know, I remember when I started in nonprofits, was right out of graduate school and I had a job and I remember being at the table and people looking at me like, what, what does she know? She doesn’t know anything. And I was like, well, You know what, I’m going to work my butt off, I’m going to figure it out, and I’m going to help people here do better, be better, help them look better, and sooner or later I’ll start to see results, and I did, I just started to get promoted, promoted, promoted. 

Sometimes it’s confidence, a lot of it’s mindset. You know, about, do I have a right to be here? Well, yes, I do. I’ve done the work to make it happen. And really having those conversations with our imposter syndrome, which pops up from time to time, I think those are all important things. And I think as we all as a collective improve our influence, we’re going to improve the influence of our field as well. 

So, every little bit helps. Tell us how people can learn more about the report, your work, get in touch with you if they’re interested. I will put, of course, everything in the show notes as links, but where can people grab these resources and learn more about Alive?  

Megan: Sure. Volunteeralive.org. That is your one stop shop for everything. So, not only, you know, the report and the tools that we discussed, there’s information on the hybrid conference I mentioned, or the mentor program and all the benefits, uh, that Alive has as a national association and, you know, our work with the Department of Labor. So, we’re continuing to just make sure that we’re updating there for people to know, uh, what’s coming up in the future and how they can continue to help advocate for themselves too. 

Anyone can always connect with me. I love these things. So, if people are struggling with how I get to the next level or, you know, I, I don’t know what to do from this point. I always love to be a sounding board for people. I mean one of my favorite things to do is help people grow in their careers and to think big. I think a lot of times we think smaller, there’s only one way we can go, uh, and there’s so many avenues to explore to get to what we really want to go, to where we really want to go. So, I’m always happy to chat with people about those things too. 

Tobi: So, you’ll give us some contact info and we’ll put those links in in the show notes.  

Megan: Yep. And you can always, you know, check out my own website, arrivecircanow.com It has all my information on there as well as some resources and different things around development. Because again, it’s the ultimate. This is what it’s an investment in ourselves, and we don’t need to wait for an organization to invest in us. 

We can continue to do this on our own and find all these ways in which we can grow as individuals and be ready for the next opportunity when it presents us.  

Tobi: Yeah, wiser words were never spoken. Thanks, Megan. This has been great. And gang, check out these resources. They are amazing. They will help you advocate and just give you sort of backup and support. 

You know, if your gut is telling you, you know what, I’m misclassified, or you know what, I don’t think my salary is on point. Or you know what, I’m ready for my next step and challenge. All those situations, this can help. So, I really appreciate you spending time today and I’ll let you know when this posts. 

And gang, thank you so much for joining. If you feel like this episode would help somebody else, maybe an executive, maybe your boss, maybe another leader of volunteers. I don’t know. Be sure to share it with them. And of course, like and review us. We always love those five-star ratings. If you can give them to us, if you feel like you want to. 

And join us next week, same time, same place on The Volunteer Nation. Take care, everybody.