165 – Let’s Make Volunteering Accessible for All with Allyson Ferrari

June 5, 2025

Episode #165: Let’s Make Volunteering Accessible for All with Allyson Ferrari 

In this episode of Volunteer Nation, Tobi Johnson is joined by Allyson Ferrari, Director of Connections at Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired, to explore how organizations can make volunteering more inclusive and accessible. 

Together, they dive into practical strategies for building, growing, and scaling volunteer talent by designing opportunities that welcome people with disabilities. From addressing legal and logistical challenges to embracing neurodiversity and co-creating roles with volunteers themselves, this conversation offers actionable insights for any organization looking to diversify and strengthen their volunteer base. 

Whether you’re just starting out or looking to improve your current practices, this episode is packed with inspiration and tools to make volunteering more welcoming for everyone. 

Accessible Volunteering – Episode Highlights

• [03:03] – Allyson’s Nonprofit Journey 
• [05:04] – The Value of Liberal Arts in Nonprofits 
• [09:00] – Defining Accessible Volunteering 
• [16:34] – Legal Aspects of Accessibility 
• [28:27] – Pairing People with Complementary Skills 
• [29:36] – Empowerment Through Disability Identity 
• [30:48] – Recognizing Unconscious Bias in Organizations 
• [32:39] – Practical Tips for Accessible Volunteering 
• [35:08] – Engaging People with Disabilities as Co-Creators 
• [40:40] – Creating Accessible Volunteer Opportunities 
• [49:03] – Supporting Neurodiverse Volunteers 

Helpful Links

• Volunteer Management Progress Report  
• Volunteer Nation Episode #Episode #124: Equity Tools for Nonprofits Volunteerism with Faiza Venzant 
• Crip Camp Movie 
• Info on US Section 504 of the US of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 
• Info on the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)  
• LightHouse for the Blind SF 
• Find Allyson on LinkedIn  
• Contact Allyson 
• Volunteer for LightHouse for the Blind SF 

Contact Us

Have questions or suggestions for the show? Email us at wecare@volpro.net.

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Episode #165 Transcript: Let’s Make Volunteering Accessible for All with Allyson Ferrari 

Tobi: Welcome everybody to another episode of the Volunteer Nation Podcast. I’m your host, Tobi Johnson, and I am really excited about today’s guest because we’re going to talk about something that I am certain that you may have thought about and maybe you’re already doing well and that’s great, but you may have thought about and just. 

S got stuck, and that is about making, volunteering accessible, accessible volunteering for people with disabilities, for people who have differing abilities for people that are volunteering roles or are contact or are environment or whatever. Isn’t really creating the most welcoming and the most awesome environment for every single person to be successful. 

You may have wondered about this in the past. How can I make volunteering more accessible? How can I make sure every person feels comfortable and can bring their best self? And we’re not all experts in accessibility, but my guest is, and that’s, why I brought her on Allyson Ferrari is wonderful sharing tips. She’s also really helpful at helping us understand, for those of us who aren’t experts in, in accessible volunteering. Allyson, welcome.  

Allyson: Thank you. Thanks for having me. 

Tobi: You know, I’m going to introduce Allyson and then we’re going to get right into it because we want to demystify things. We do not need to know everything about everything, but we do need to make efforts to make sure that we are welcoming for all and open for all. 

So, Allyson Ferrari. CVA, like me. Yay. And she’s director of connections for Lighthouse for the Blind and visually impaired. Allyson is based in San Francisco in the Bay Area and serving the blind, low vision and deafblind communities in the state of California. The Connections team, which she leads, is integral to welcoming new Lighthouse students, providing service navigation through their participation in Lighthouse Services, facilitating community engagement programming and providing volunteer services throughout the Lighthouse service area. 

Allyson joined the Lighthouse team in 2017 as the volunteer manager, so she has been promoted y’all and has been leading the Connections department since May 2023. For fun, she likes to go on Heights, curl up with a good book and support the Bay Area women’s sports teams, and we had a fun conversation about women’s soccer, but she’s also a basketball fan y’all. 

So welcome to the pod Allyson. Thank you so much. So, let’s just get right into it. And I always like to ask our guests about their nonprofit birth story, how they got into nonprofits, how they got into volunteer engagement. Because it’s always such an interesting journey to learn about and it helps set the context sometimes for why people wears are where they are. So, tell us a little bit about you. How did you get involved?  

Allyson: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that nonprofit trajectory is wild. It’s such a like curvy, curvy way. So, my curvy way. So, I went to UC Davis for undergrad, and I did history and religious studies. Very two very concrete, like totally had a career plan after that. 

So, my last year of school, I was just sitting there being like, I don’t know what to do. I don’t know. We, my friend and I were trying to decide what to do that weekend, and it was like, what about we go to a museum? And so, we were looking, and we didn’t end up going, but there was a little link on the website that said, Hey, volunteer. 

And I was like, okay, I know California State history. I’ve been a resident of California my whole life. I can do this. And I’m like, sure, I could be a docent. That’s cool. I don’t know. I’ve got a car I can get to sac. So, I started volunteering as a docent with the California Museum in Sacramento, and that launched into a, I have a master’s in museums studies now that I got from San Francisco State. Shout out. It’s a great program. And then after that, I just really loved being able to interact with people I credit volunteering with. Um, I hate talking to people, like, it’s just not really like a. Getting in front of a large group is so terrifying. 

One-on-one is good, but like large groups are so tough. I’m like, I’m playing with the little rubber band because like whenever I’m nervous. So, I really credit them with launching my career into nonprofits with museums, and then. Being able to really get out of my shell and give me some tools to just kind of like shove me into the deep end. 

So yeah, I was got a master’s in museum studies and then I worked for Girl Scouts and then I have been at Lighthouse since 2017. So, it’s been fun. I love working with volunteers, being, being a volunteer, working with volunteers, you name it.  

Tobi: Yeah. And as a fellow person with a liberal arts degree, modern art history theory and criticism master’s degree, but got the degree thinking, yeah, I’m going to get into working in the arts in the nonprofit space, and quickly transition, I think after. 

Well, it was difficult in that era to find jobs and I ended up also transitioning. I wanted to do more direct service, so I ended up transitioning into employment and training. And same story though, liberal arts. But I think there’s something about the liberal arts degree, people kind of poo poo it. And I wasn’t going to be become a museum curator, or I wasn’t going to do that. 

But there’s something about the liberal arts that helps us see the world in a certain way. There’s a, mine was in modern art history theory and criticism, so we were like looking at all kinds of theories of the world and society, and I feel like it kind of helps us analyze better. I don’t know. What do you think about that? 

Allyson: Yeah, analyze it thinks like you can think better and then you can. Your persuasive skills are better, right? Yeah. Like you can be able to form an argument. Yeah. If STEM is great, I love stem, I love being able to go in an airplane and I don’t want to deal with aerospace engineering. 

That’s not a thing for me. But we still need people who know how to think and can argue. And also, let’s not have history repeat itself, which we’re in a. Fun place there. So yeah, I, I think it’s really important and, and it’s kind of a, yeah, it is, it’s a poo-pooed fuel, but it’s, it’s like you can’t progress without being able to think and, and be okay with making mistakes too, right. So, yeah,  

Tobi: Absolutely. And I think liberal, we’re, we’re, we’re going off on a tangent around liberal rights, but I also think that liberal arts help us be creative because we’re really working outside of like always, it’s not necessarily the straight up, hear to their stop pattern, there’s not one right answer. 

Allyson: Yes. Which I think going back to the like topic at hand with like accessibility, there’s never one right answer. Right. Being able to pivot your way through is how you’re going to be successful.  

Tobi: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, as you think about volunteerism and community engagement. And as well as accessible volunteering. What does it mean to you?  

Allyson: Oh, man. I mean, it’s a big question. I know. It’s such, it’s such a big question. I mean, I think for me, for volunteering, I love being able to meet people with similar interests. Like it’s such an easy way to be like, oh, I can connect with people walking into a room, like a networking event. 

Okay, everyone’s here about volunteering broadly, but you could be volunteering with humans or with pets. Those people don’t necessarily, they’re not the same. People, like if you’re a pet person, an animal person, you’re not a human person. But if you are the people volunteering, like I volunteer regularly with the California State Parks Foundation and I know every time I show up I’m going to be there with people who love nature, who love being outside, who want to connect to parks in a new way. 

And so, there’s like already a built in something and it doesn’t matter how they get there. Right? So I think it’s the same with the culture that we need to build at all of our institutions is that recognizing that people came here, there’s, there’s a mission that they’re sharing and that’s, that’s the community engagement piece I think is the connection to the mission at hand. 

Tobi: Absolutely. I also think it also doesn’t matter where you’re coming from outside of your volunteering. Volunteers seem to for the most part, regardless of how they cantankerous, a disagreement might happen politically or, or around a social cause outside of their volunteering. Once they’re in their volunteering spot and they’re working, they realize they’re more alike than different and they’re working together. There’s just not, people don’t bring that to their volunteering very often.  

Allyson: Now it’s kind of like you don’t talk about money and religion and politics like in your dinner parties. So, people don’t really do it in volunteering either. It’s like a good neutral. 

Tobi: Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It’s a great area to connect. Well, let’s dive into accessible volunteering and why is it an essential part of inclusive volunteer engagement and. Maybe we define level set for everybody. What do we mean by the term accessible when it comes to volunteering?  

Allyson: Yeah. I mean, I think at its core it’s about creating an equitable experience. So, there’s so many ways to build a culture that welcomes everyone there or everyone to the space. But accessibility is removing. Those barriers from the, from the get-go. Right? And so, people may like your accessibility needs may change over time. People could develop a disability later or recognize they have a disability or recognize that the way that they operate within the world is they need something else to show up fully and really be able to be invested. 

But really to build a culture of being accessible is, I mean, it’s magical because it’s something that’s creative and there’s something in the disability space that’s called the curb cut effect. There’s universal design, which is something maybe designed for one person or one need. 

So many other needs might be able to use it. That might not be disability centered. So, the curb cut is the great example. So, curb cut was designed in Berkeley, which is cool, was designed so that people in wheelchairs could be able to cross the street and you can’t really go down a curb in a wheelchair. 

But then people started noticing that people with stroller’s suitcase. Luger’s skateboarders all started using them. And so that’s the curb cut effect of you get to build one thing and then all these other people start to follow. So, I think with volunteering, it’s thinking through like if you’re a new volunteer, orientations have videos and things like having closed captioning on that, you might be supporting people who English is not their first language. 

Or I live in Oakland and sometimes there’s motorcycles going up and down my street and I just really can’t hear so that I’m able to, to read it. So I think all of those things, it’s like you, you get to find these solutions that will work for one person and, and it might be one person flags it and then you build it and then all these other people are like, whoa, this is, this is great. 

So I think. Yeah, that’s, that’s the like accessible volunteering piece is just, it’s creating all of these pathways in and honestly, casting such a white net, you don’t even know who you’re going to catch in that.  

Tobi: I think when people think about accessibility, they think of some legalistic term and compliance and yeah, and it’s scary. And I don’t understand, and, and I don’t have an encyclopedic understanding of all the different abilities and disabilities and, and what people’s needs are. And I’m not a, a, an expert, and I love this definition that just says. Hey, it’s just thinking about and making accommodations for a wide range of people so that they can bring their best selves. 

So, there’s reducing barriers. That’s all it is. And as you said, this curb cut effect brings a wider benefit to everybody who’s coming into our organizations. I love that. Yeah, I love that. So, it’s not a sort of a niche type of activity at all, right? It’s a more inclusive, what are organizations missing out on when they aren’t inclusive for folks with a variety of abilities and disabilities? What are the things that people bring? To the table when they have maybe not your mainstream ability set?  

Allyson: Yeah, I mean the, the biggest thing that strikes me with this question is just, it’s creativity. So, the world is designed for non-disabled people. So, I’m sighted, operate in a sided world when I leave the office like. 

Bart runs for me. All these things are, are built for me with me and mine, and so my friends and colleagues and the people that we work with, that’s not their reality. Like they leave Lighthouse and it’s, the world is crap. Like it’s not, it’s not designed for them. So, you must get creative in trying to operate in this space and being able to be safe and do the things that you want to do and. 

Really figure out how, yeah, how you can operate in a space and that is not designed for you at its core. So, I think when people show up either in the workplace or volunteering or at school or wherever it is, they bring creativity to try to fit all these pieces into whatever their needs are. And of course, there’s so much intersectionality’s at play too. 

Like people could have multiple disabilities. Like we work with deaf-blind folks, but there’s also folks with intellectual and develop. Developmental disabilities who are blind or blind wheelchair users or autistic wheelchair users, right? Like there’s all of these things and then you have socioeconomic status and race and gender and sexuality. 

There are all these other things that are combining in here. So, I think it’s just opening the door allows for more creative thought and just more questioning of where we are and being able to. Not think that there’s one way to do something. And also, I think with that creativity piece, like if something doesn’t work, people are good at pivoting and being okay with that. Like things probably shouldn’t work right the first time. Yeah. If you do it right, then you maybe should be questioning what’s going on. Are people lying and saying that it’s. I don’t know.  

Tobi: I mean, think about that as a cognitive skillset, right? This idea of flexibility, this idea of everything is figureoutable. It’s like a mindset, right? Totally. It’s, it’s an enabling belief because folks have had to, they’ve had to show grit. They’ve had to figure stuff out, either, either themselves or their family members or in, in concert with other helpers, and people with different. Cognitive abilities or different, just the way their brains work, that they have different ways of thinking as well and seeing the world. 

And so, we are in a very volatile and very turbulent time where creativity is going to be the thing that separates the wheat from the chaff. Really it’S people’s ability to peel it. Pivot people’s ability to show grit, people’s ability to stick with it and keep looking at things in different ways and not doing the, we’ve always done it this way, and so having this skillset that comes from people who’ve had to navigate and a world where it’s designed for people who don’t have disabilities, I think is a, is an absolute bonus. 

Allyson: Yeah, I think the, like Ross Geller, the Pivot couch scene is really going to be our MO, I mean, it should be our MO for like forever, but for the foreseeable future. Awesome, awesome.  

Tobi: Let’s get the elephant in the room on the table and just talk about it right away, because I think folks, this is one of the big fears that stops people from moving forward. And then we can get into what our specific. Strategies and tactics and mindsets. Folks need to really create accessible volunteering at their organization or offer that space or improve, right? And widen the breadth of people they can welcome. But what are some of the laws that impacts, because I know people in their risk assessment, risk management, they’re thinking, well, wait a minute. 

What if I break a law? What if you’re already breaking a law, y’all, let’s get this elephant OO on the table, talk about it. And then move on to the more fun stuff to talk about. Yeah.  

Allyson: I mean, interestingly, there’s very few laws. Mm. So, the first one was 504. This was passed in the seventies. It was, it’s a cool story. 

It’s how I got into the disabled space, was learning about this movement. Highly recommend watching Cryp camp on Netflix to tell you more about it, but mm-hmm. The longest occupation of a federal building in US history happened by disabled people in San Francisco. Wow. So anyway, 5 0 4. Is anyone receiving federal funds? 

Required to have their spaces made accessible. And then the Americans with Disabilities Act, which was passed in 1990, is the follow up to that, which anybody in a public space. What’s interesting about the ADA is that, so it was written in the, like late eighties, passed in 90 and. It, it doesn’t have a lot of teeth. 

There’s not a whole lot that people can do with it. There are, there are people who will go and be like, that bathroom’s not accessible, and then soothe the little mom and pop shop. There are still people who do that, but otherwise it’s really, it’s designed for kind of, when you like Google a disabled person and you see a person in a wheelchair, it’s like a white person in a wheelchair. 

That’s kind of what the ADA was designed for. So, there’s been some interesting like. Evolutions there. One case that was really interesting a couple years ago was someone sued Domino’s because their website was inaccessible to blind screen reader users. So Sky wanted to order a pizza, and Domino’s didn’t have inaccessible website. 

Our websites public, like our websites covered under the ADA. So, there’s all these questions coming out now that kind of our environment and infrastructure look different, but. Can’t really do that much with the Aada A, it just doesn’t.  

Tobi: Yeah.  

Allyson: So, make your buildings accessible. Yeah. But like everything else is just kind of, you should just do it. Yeah. It’s more about mobility, right? And less about neurodivergence or anything, you know? Yeah. Or language access. There’s no, as far as I know, there’s no real law about having American Sign language interpreters or things like that. Yeah. It’s just building codes.  

Tobi: If your organization, this is a, this is a takeaway, y’all. If your organization is balking because you’re worried about laws and you don’t understand the laws. Like not a big deal, not, not as big of a deal, just do the right thing. Right? It’s the same with volunteerism. And this is US law. We’re just talking about US laws. So, for our listeners in other countries, you need to check your own country’s laws. 

But it’s the same with laws about volunteerism. We have this sort of volunteer protection act, but it doesn’t have many teeth. It’s really limited in scope and it for ethical volunteering. We have our CCVA, the CVA ethics guidelines, but we don’t really have anything for. Protection of volunteers, none of that. 

Once in a while, I’ll get people contacting me with some pretty serious complaints about the place they volunteer. So their people are not all being treated equally, but I don’t think the law and the legal, the legal stuff. And if you have questions, just talk to your HR attorney and, and they’ll be able to give you sort of the lowdown on these things because it’s just not that. There’s nothing directly related to volunteers, and it’s mostly related to public spaces. Am I correct on that, Allyson? I mean, we’re not legal scholars. FYI. We’re not attorneys.  

Allyson: Yeah, I’m not in HR, thank God. But yeah, I mean, there are certain rules, like when it comes to interviewing for jobs. About, you can’t ask people what their disabilities are, but it’s such a gray area with volunteers. 

And so, for us, we do ask our volunteers, do you identify as someone with a disability? And specifically, within that, are you blind or visually impaired? And we want to know, because we want our volunteers to represent our community. So, I think for us it’s, we have the argument. And people can decline. Of course, you don’t have to give us that information, but I think it’s also, yeah, it’s like, why do you need this information? 

What are you going to do with it? I think that’s just like the one piece that’s a little bit different with employment law, but. Yeah. Generally, I find employment law is the one to follow, but other, but like disability stuff. Oh, it’s messy.  

Tobi: Yeah. I think too, asking people, not only do you identify, but also is there anything, what supports can, can we provide or try to provide 100% to help you. 

Allyson: Yeah. We’ll ask like what accommodation needs and sometimes people know and sometimes they don’t. Sometimes it’ll just be vague, I don’t like this thing. Or, and it could be something simple like I need a chair.  

Tobi: Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes it’s equipment. Well, we’ve got to think about that and we’ve got to think about investing. It’s something I think too that funders can understand as well sometimes that if you can identify some needs, uh, that are barriers to volunteers. I just had a great conversation with Jennifer Angelo from Points of Light, and we talked about the fact that nonprofits don’t ask for things for volunteer engagement. 

Funders don’t think that organizations need anything. And so, there’s this sort of cycle of lack of investment. So, I think accessibility tools. Learning, et cetera, should be something that if, if we’re open to this, that we should start to think about getting funding for as well, even in small amounts to help people. 

Allyson: There might be opportunities for partnerships too, if, you know an organization in the Bay reaches out to Lighthouse and is like, hey, we’re struggling. Like we have blind volunteers, or we want to open to volunteers. Like we can help coach that through. And if there’s one person, like. 

There might be funding that we have as a blindness organization that we can use for this person. If their goals are volunteering for employment easy, we can figure that out. Yeah. So, like I think that’s also leveraging your own community and your own network to also you’re not alone. Like I think that’s the other thing in this is that it’s feels so like I must do the right thing, but no, ask the person what they need, give them the reality. They know that accommodations are expensive and at the end of the day, you just want to do your best.  

Tobi: Yeah, and I, I absolutely, I think really looking for community supports, partners, resources is so smart. It’s true. We, it, it’s such a mindset in our sector, like especially with volunteer managers. I’ve got to figure it all out myself, but we’re not competing. 

Allyson: Like, no, I, I volunteer for multiple organizations. Like the one I volunteer at on Saturday doesn’t compete for my time. The one on Sunday. I mean, okay, maybe sometimes there’s schedule conflicts, but there’s some, we’re not at odds with each other, you know?  

Tobi: So, what do you think stops organizations? I know this is a big question and we’ve touched on in a little bit, not understanding the laws or realizing lack of laws. 

Or not realizing the resources are out there or haven’t done the research yet or not asking or not feeling comfortable asking volunteers what they need. What are other things that stop organizations from actively seeking and recruiting people with disabilities?  

Allyson: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s just such a fear of messing up, of not doing the right thing. And then again, as someone who identifies as sighted, working at an organization who works with and for the blind community, I don’t have that lived experience of being blind after eight years. I have a lot of examples of this is the world and this is the reality. And I get checked all the time here at work like, nope. 

Don’t do that, that’s an inaccessible document and you’ve just got to be okay with that. Like you’ve got to be okay that sometimes you just forget. And that’s okay too. And that’s, this is me like having almost a decade of experience being in this space and having a lot of close friends operating in that way. 

But yeah, I mean, I think. Just, again, it’s just the fear of messing up, of, of not providing quite the right resource, of not being able to fund the tool. There are so many things and options out there too that it’s like, I don’t know which one to pick. And so, it’s like analysis paralysis too, I think. Ladies in, yeah, I think we’ll leave it at those two. 

Tobi: Yeah. What do you experience or see – we don’t need to name names, but bias or a lack of understanding. And do you think that gets in the way in terms of. Folks understanding the potential Oh yeah. Of volunteers with disabilities. What, what do you see, what are examples so that people can kind of identify them in their own organization if they are prevalent? Mindsets?  

Allyson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so the, the active like Islam against disabled people is ableism, so Right. All of us have internalized ableism, like it’s just the thing that we, we operate with. It’s almost impossible not to have it. And the disabled. Community also has their own ableist things as well. Yeah. So, if, if people, if ableism was happening, how would people know? 

Yeah. I mean, man, it’s so hard. You’ve just got to check yourself. I think for there, I think your own, your own biases come into play when not being okay with shifting and not being okay with being called out. So, I think. You in one way, you must just build the culture of saying, if I’m doing something, I need you to call me out and be okay with that. 

Mm-hmm. And then create a space where volunteers feel like they can advocate for themselves. I think there’s, there’s a lot kind of to unpack in that too. The like advocacy piece is, you don’t want, if you have one blind volunteer, you don’t want that one person to speak for the whole blind community or the whole disabled community. 

Right. You, you’ve met one person. That’s it. You’ve met. Yeah. One person. Blindness is a spectrum. There’s no one way that you’re operating in the world. Some people have a lot of residual vision; some people have none. And fun fact, not everyone reads braille as well. So, if you’ve met a braille user, you’ve met one of 10 blind people who know braille. 

Wow. So. I think that’s the other piece is you’ve got to recognize that you’ll build a thing that you’re hoping will do a lot of community work, and you’re trying to reach as broad a spectrum as you possibly can, but it’s not going to work for everyone. What can be really challenging but also interesting and fascinating is there’s also competing accessibility needs. 

So, with blind world, some people may want extra light, so like bright spaces so that they can see paper or that they can see their environment. And other people, they’re light sensitive, so they want it to be dark. So again, if you’ve met one person and they told you this thing. You’ve met one person. 

It’s the same with any other. You met one queer person. Cool. You met a person. Yeah, you met one black person. Cool. You met a person. Like you can’t use those people to define. And then I think the slippery slope in that is that if you don’t have these lived experiences and you don’t know that there’s a broader community out there, you’re using that one person to define, to use that definition, and use that as your one thing moving forward. So, I think what I always want to challenge people with is just talk to people. Learn from them, ask them questions. Maybe not too invasive. Maybe figure out like what your, if it’s a stranger on the train, maybe don’t ask them how they became blind. You know, things like that. 

But read books, watch movies, be inquisitive, ask questions, and be okay with being called out. I think we can only show up in the best way that we can, and I think intent goes a long way. And back to the original thing, ableism showing up. I think the other thing about ableism is there’s a lot of just assumed competencies there. 

So, like a person who maybe has an intellectual disability, there’s an assumed. Lack of confidence or competence in like certain tasks? Yes. Or a blind person. There’s an assumed lack of ability to read paper, but guess what? There are tools where people can use paper, or maybe you pair two volunteers together and they’ll do that work together. 

And so, I think. It’s building creative solutions as well but not making assumptions. Don’t talk to people like their children and like really, basic disability etiquette stuff. Don’t ever touch a person’s wheelchair. It’s like touching their body. Right? So, there’s, and those, that comes with time, but it also comes with learning as well. 

Tobi: Yeah, I think, I love this idea of. Pairing people who have complimentary mad skills, right? Oh, you have a super skill in this area. You have a super skill rather than pairing people because two people have deficits, right? This deficit view of people, one of my close friends. Is the co-executive director of an organization in, in Marin County that helps adults. 

It’s a residential organization that helps adults with developmental disabilities, and they create art and sell their arts and crafts, and it, it, it, there there’s no limit for what people can do and they’re getting into business. And, and so people wouldn’t think that, they’d think, oh, well, uh. These poor people, dah, dah, dah. 

Yeah. There’s this sort of like deficit kind of look at people like we talked about earlier. People are evolving, they’re creating accommodations for themselves. They may be attuning some other ability that they have. They have a different perspective too. Sometimes there’s so many ways that people like mad skills get developed in different ways. So, I love that idea.  

Allyson: And I think the other thing too is just recognizing disability is not a bad word, right? It’s the disabled community. People are disabled, like that’s okay. And there’s, there’s arguments about person first language. So, like a person who is disabled versus a disabled person. 

And I’m much for identity first. So, like a disabled person, a blind person, and it’s part of their identity. It’s part of how someone shows up in the world. And so, I think there’s the not. Recognizing disability is a, is a term of empowerment. It is a community, also is a form of ableism and is. Kind of stripping someone of how they show up and not giving them that piece of their identity. Yeah, but it’s, it’s not a bad word, y’all just use it.  

Tobi: Well, I think people are afraid they’re going to say something wrong, and you know, if you use a term that, and, and you’re going to make somebody grumpy. Yeah, if you’re going to get out there in a new community, you’re going to make somebody grumpy and two people in that community may think completely differently about the language you’re using. 

And I just say, hmm, tell me more about that. That is my default response when somebody checks me. Interesting. Tell me more about that. And I will, somebody else will have a completely different, and they will debate. Together about that. I also think it’s fascinating when we think about bias and maybe even unconscious bias that our organizations may be blocking due to lack of accommodation, but it may also be due to lack of unconscious bias in the way the places we go to look for people. 

The communications we use, the people we highlight as superstars or as representatives of our community. And I think it’s interesting because CCVA and they did the Avy study and they found, and I’ll link to this in the show notes, and I think I, I think we had FISA on talking about it. So, I’ll see if I can FISA events on from CVA or CCVA, but they found that most organizations have no idea of the diversity of their volunteer corps, the only thing they’re going on is what they see in front of them. Oh, I see all white people, or I see all old people, or whatever, or older people. So, you may already have people in your volunteer corps who have some type of disability or imagine managing something or. 

By the same token as well, if you have aging volunteers, you have volunteers that may not be defined as a person with disabilities, but their mobility is changing, or their cognitive ability is changing over time. Yeah. And so even your, your, your volunteer core, first, you don’t know if you, unless you’ve asked, and second of all, it’s also changing and evolving over time. 

Allyson: 100%. And I mean. Being disabled is one of the only identities that you can become at any point in life. I’m not disabled now, but tomorrow I could be. Yep. Like there is, it’s, it’s the thing. You don’t, you don’t change your race and yeah. So, it’s for the better of everybody. Because you don’t know how they’re going to show up tomorrow. 

Tobi: Yeah, yeah. Let’s take a quick break and then we’re going to get down to brass tacks and just maybe talk about some examples, give some really practical tips for folks so that they can feel a little more confident and get moving on this. What do you think? Sounds great. Okay. We’ll be right back after this break with more on how to build more accessible volunteer opportunities with Allyson Ferrari. So do not go anywhere. We are for sure going to give you some practical tips, so don’t go anywhere.  

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Okay, we’re back with Allyson Ferrari and our chat about integrating accessible volunteering into our opportunities. Allyson, I always think about when I’m working with a new community that the fastest way to do things in a way that’s helpful and appropriate is to engage those folks as co-creators. 

How can we engage people with disabilities as co-creators, as if we’re an organization that we really haven’t leaned into this before and we want to. What are tips you have for engaging people? Again, we don’t want to like single one person out and go, please, you represent and give us all, you know, that’s, that’s not cool, but people do want to have a say and can give you some good advice. 

Allyson: Totally. Yeah. I love the co-creation thing and like you’re driving the ship, but like you can’t, that ship doesn’t operate without all these other people jumping on board. Right. I mean, I think if you’re really starting at the. Bottom. Like you just, you don’t know who your volunteers are, and you need to know more about that. 

I would say just find out who your volunteers are. See if you can do a survey and say, hey, we’re just taking a quick demographic study. You can make it anonymous or not. If you make it anonymous, people. Maybe more open with you and do all the, like, all the demographic things that you may want. But I think also too, think about what your volunteer surveys look like. 

What, like what type of feedback are you looking for? Is it only, like how are your programs running? Like volunteer appreciation. How am I feeling? Like all sound questions, but are you asking those harder questions of do I feel welcome? Do I feel like I belong? Or are there things that my organization, lighthouse for the Blind can provide to make volunteering better for you and have it be open-ended? 

I think if you ask those questions, I will maybe steer towards not being anonymous so that you could follow up with people individually. I think people just want to be heard and you don’t know what’s out there until you ask. And then, I mean, if you’re comfortable with it, depending on how that all goes or what your community looks like, advisory groups are awesome. 

Invite people sit down on Zoom and just see what people have to say and recognize then that that’s a form of emotional labor that people are doing. And so. Recognizing that too but knowing that you can’t build this stuff by yourself and you are one person or one team or whatever, but you show up how you show up and you need other people’s buy-in, so you’ve got to ask. 

Tobi: Yeah. I think it’s also helpful how you ask. You can include a link in at the end of your survey. And say, if you’re interested, you can make sure you’re acknowledging these things around emotional labor. We know that you may not have time or not have an interest, but we, we don’t want to do this work alone and we want it to be informed by our volunteers because this place is for you too. 

You know, there’s just ways of couching it versus we’re doing an initiative around inclusive volunteering and making volunteering accessible. And we needed a disability advisory group, right? I like listening sessions. We’re gonna have a listening session, and if we decide to take next steps or when we take next steps, you’ll have, you’ll have an opportunity to participate or not. 

You know, right. And, and let people know they’re not signing their life away. We’re just having a sit down and we want to hear from you and asking a survey, is there anything that are barriers that makes volunteering difficult for you that we need to know about? And then you could present that data to your group and then have a conversation about it and start really. 

And then recommendations. What recommendations do you have? It’s not rocket science, but we also, we often in nonprofits, want to make everything into a program. I ha I’m, I’m using quote air quotes guys a program and because we’ve been trained that way and the funders want us to give them a program, right? 

But that doesn’t need to start this way can be about community building, right? Yeah.  

Allyson: Yeah. 100%. And I mean, I think, I love what you said about like how to. Frame it too, because I think there’s such a big push of DEI or DEAI or whatever, like acronym you’re using. And I think that’ll come from leadership. 

It’ll come from the board, it’ll come from your strategic plan to really diversify. But no one wants to be that one checkbox, right? Like they don’t want to be the sympathy volunteer or the like diversity hire, right? So, making it. You could be transparent and say that our goal, like for us, our goals are that the volunteer community reflects our larger and broader community. 

And it’s broad and it’s nice, and that also means it’s tied to our strategic plan where we have a goal to increase like certain diverse populations. But that’s a. You don’t want to be like that, that document thing. It’s got to be softer than that. I want the like pizza party and skin just show up and give you my honest feedback and make it better for other people. 

Tobi: I also think strategically right now, for those who get federal funding and have had to really worry about the use of the word diversity, there’s many creative ways to talk about how you remove barriers to volunteering and how is that? A bad thing to do. Yeah, right. It’s, it’s called being strategic. You need volunteers and you need to remove anything, any barriers that are keeping people from volunteering. 

It is that simple. If you want to break it down to that, that simple. Totally.  

Allyson: And again, you just don’t know what you’re going to get. Like you may get people who say, I’m a working mom and this is just too hard, your schedule, or I don’t have transportation. And that impacts so many different people. So. Yeah, you don’t know if you don’t ask. 

Tobi: Yeah. Let’s talk about practical tips. Let’s start with Lighthouse. What have you done to create more accessible volunteering opportunities? Just give us a few examples, including visual impairments, but that’s really, your mission is deaf blind, but tell us a little bit about that, how you approached it when you started working there as a volunteer coordinator. 

Allyson: Yeah. I mean, this question’s so hard for me because I’m like, it’s just how we show up. I don’t know. Right? Like it’s just. We are an accessible space and we’re here. I think there’s something really cool about modeling, just like other people being there, and so I think it is just like volunteers hearing from other volunteers, but for us, we’ve baked into our service model that people who are. 

Kind of ex community members will go back into volunteering. So, we have, I’ve tried hard to not have the volunteer department be segmented, and I think that’s really challenging. Think about organizational structure. Do you sit with HR? Do you sit with development? Are you in programs like that matters? 

And you ultimately maybe don’t have that authority to say, I want to be in this other department, but are you collaborating? Are those. Do those silos exist? So, I think for me, that was kind of the biggest thing at the start, was making sure that volunteers weren’t divorced from everything else that we did as an organization and hone and like still breaking down some of those barriers too. 

Job descriptions shouldn’t have, needs to drive somewhere. Right. Unless that truly is the job, if you are right. Delivering meals to folks, yeah. Okay. You probably got to drive a vehicle, but do you really need a driver’s license if you’re filing paperwork? Yeah. Or if you know you’re meeting somewhere for an event. 

Think about what some of these barriers are that you’re kind of setting up. And I think the driver’s license is a big one that’s often there. And then the ability to lift 25 pounds or 30 pounds or whatever. Like why I’m sitting at a desk all day, like, yeah, how many bankers’ boxes do you think we have? So, I think that’s some of it. 

And then the other things that I noticed, like when I came on is. Is think of for us, for, for the blind community is, is how much print do you have? Is your volunteer handbook going out and print? Are you mailing things? Is there a way that you can make that digitally accessible instead, which, hey, it’s cheaper. 

You don’t have to print everything. Yeah. And then it’s more of a living document. So, if you print things, they’re not going to be accessible to people, or you must think about contrast or all these other things. And. And then the other touched on it earlier, not all blind people know braille, so don’t sink teeth. 

Braille is expansive. Don’t sink teeth into making braille or figure thinking that you must have braille to make it accessible. But I think really, it’s just been iterative over time. You’ll start building things. And then for us too, it’s building. We have a lot of. Cited volunteers too, obviously. 

And so, making sure that they have the tools to be able to also create a culture of culture of accessibility and a culture of belonging. And, and so giving them the same tools of like, these are the books, these are the movies. Talk to people. Like the one person you meet every week is not like the one blind person in the world. 

Tobi: What are some of the roles you have blind folks doing? Blind volunteers doing at the Lighthouse?  

Allyson: Yeah. I mean, some of it is they’ll run programs and say staff, like we’ve got blind staff too. They’ll be running programs. I love that. Because then as people just get to show up with, I love knitting or I love. Cooking or coffee or whatever. So, they’ll help us inform our programs and it’s blind. People can check people in, they can be greeted, they can help with food, like all the things that people do in an event, and then we’ll have people do data entry. 

Some of that is easier for us because we already have the software and the accessibility tools, which again, are expensive. So. Yeah, I think. And then, oh, and then we have a camp up in Napa, and so we’ll have volunteers, volunteer and lead sessions up there as well.  

Tobi: Fun. Yeah, fun. This is awesome. I hope it’s starting to open the minds of folks. How do you get folks up to speed when you’re orienting? Are you having folks that are blind and folks that are cited in volunteer orientations together? Everybody’s working together. We’re not. Siloing folks and we’re bringing people on board and getting them matched with jobs. And talk a little bit about your matching as well.  

Allyson: Yeah. So not siloing. Everyone comes in at the same time. We’ll ask about interpretation too. So, if there are people who use a SL as their primary means of communication, again, that’s expensive, so not everyone’s going to be able to do that if it’s outside of your budget. And what I like to do with the orientations, if there are blind folks there again, not. 

Putting them on the spot, but just like opening it up to questions or is there anything else people want to share as we’re like going through things? Because some people are vocal and other people are like, ah, I’m just going to sit here. There’s a little bit of facilitation in there too, of like, how much do you want this person to run away with it or feel comfortable with it. 

But yeah, stay together. I love the cohort model, doing the interview and making sure that people, you reiterate what the opportunities are, and again, asking people. Really clearly, what are their needs? Do you have are, is there a certain form of inform, like how can we provide information for you in an accessible way? 

Or are you okay sitting for long periods of time or standing for long periods of time? Like it should be like a rubric that you ask in general for everybody. And again, this could change, like someone could have double knee surgery. In two weeks, right? And then need to sit down for six months but then be totally fine. 

So, I think it’s about just asking the questions and then in your job descriptions. So just like we don’t want to include requirements that are unnecessary. We also want to be really. Transparent and upfront about what the roles are. So, saying this position requires a lot of standing, or this position is out in the sun all day or give people the information they need to make the best decision for them. 

And if you notice that people are showing up and like you notice a pattern for one volunteer, or you notice they’re really struggling that day, ask them and say, hey, I noticed you’re kind of struggling with this. Is there a way that we can make this better? Would you like to be reassigned? Can we support you in any way know that people are going to make the best decision for them? 

Might not always be the right fit. You might also have to softly just be like, maybe that’s not the best fit for them for future positions, and that, that’s kind of more of the extreme, but it, it does happen. But really let them decide by giving them all the information and sometimes it’s hard to forecast though. 

Tobi: And I feel like it’s foundational volunteer MA matching best practices with maybe a little bit more leaning into mobility or accommodations, but it, it basically volunteers management best practice as far as I can tell. And so, people shouldn’t be afraid. And also, kind of checking that people pleasing Gene that we all have, especially in this field where we want to say yes to everything. 

Oh my gosh, yes. And sometimes you have to say, well actually that accommodation, we just don’t have a capacity. Let’s investigate, do you have any ideas or should we investigate partners, et cetera. And sometimes it’s just we can’t do that. We just can’t do it. Yeah. Man. Saying no is so hard. And we feel like, well, you know, and that’s a bias too. Oh, if a person has a disability, then I should say yes to everything. That’s also like a, a bias, right? No, it’s people to people. Let’s have clear, honest communication.  

Allyson: And I think it’s okay too to just be like, hey, the last time we had this. We matched you with somebody like, we did this thing, this was an accommodation. Is this another thing that you need, or, I noticed you signed up for this shift again, is this, should we talk about this? They’re not easy conversations all of the time, but also remember that it’s, it’s okay if you misstep and they’ll, they’ll tell you.  

Tobi: And framing it even in your recruitment materials. We are open, we want to have open conversations about people’s barriers and limitations and, and we want to make it accessible as possible. 

I think if you put that rather than like equal opportunity statement, something like that, like really like being just like. Open and setting the stage early in the orientation that these are open conversations. We welcome your input. We we’re going to check in with you. I think if you just set the stage, people are going to see and if you’re consistent with it, I want to ask, we’re almost to the top of the hour and I want to ask you a question about Neurodiverse volunteers, because this came up in, uh, advanced. 

Seminar I was teaching in the Impact Lab this morning and I promised I would ask do you have any tips for working with and helping Neurodiverse volunteers? In this case, the volunteer manager wants to make sure that those volunteers have space, even in the volunteer leadership roles, so they’re like really wanting to tackle this full on. Any tips for folks?  

Allyson: Yeah, I mean, I love that, and I love that Neurodivergence is such a thing that’s just. It’s, it’s coming out more and it’s okay to talk about and I mean, the thing with NeuroD Divergencies is there’s so many. Ways that you show up in that. Like you could have a DHD, you could be autistic, you could have PTSD, bipolar disorder. 

There are all of these things, and, and, and then they can, they can coexist too, right? Mm-hmm. Having a DHD and autism coexist a lot. I think one of the big things with disability, I talked about how disability is not a bad word, but also really make sure you’re looking into, what words are you using? Is that really okay? 

The weather’s bipolar, super ableist don’t do that. Yeah. Or that person really, I think they’re on the spectrum. Like, don’t, you don’t need to forecast that. Like it’s, it reads bad. Yeah. So, I think that’s a, make sure you’re using the right language. I think that that is a community that’s really. It. 

It’s kind of the last, it feels like one of the last people to really get set on using the right language. And then I think as far as like making a space that works, it’s the same thing. Ask questions like people are going to show up in different ways. A lot, especially with autistic folks, is going to be like sensory input. 

So, if you have a volunteer shift that’s over three hours, and again, this is going to benefit more than just autistic people, is. Are you building in breaks? Are you, do you, do you have breaks where you can cool off from? Like, I have talked to 15 people or like 1500 people, or whatever the, those are both bad examples. 

Hopefully you’re not doing that, but if you’re talking to too many people and you’re just like kind of Zayed, do you have a small space to relax? Do you have a staff and volunteer break room? Are you checking in with your volunteers to make sure that they have the support that they need in that space? 

And then when a new volunteer is getting set up in a role and whether it’s recurring or new, check in with them and be like, okay, how are the vibes? Are you okay? Are the lights good right now? Which also benefits the blind community, or is it too loud? You don’t need to ask all of those questions. But those are kind of the things that would go through my mind and things that kind of trigger for me too is those are the things that are just. 

Not comfortable and making sure that you’re checking in with people and asking like, is this space comfortable for you? Can you do this based on the current environment? But I think as you’re kind of prepping and you don’t know who’s going to show up, the quiet space and the detachment and the breaks are going to be your best friend. 

Tobi: Yeah, good point. I think too, figuring out a way to ha facilitate an open conversation about communication style, leadership style. Because in this case, the volunteer manager wants to promote folks to leadership roles and people who are neurodivergent. Often have or newer, diverse, often have different communication styles than the mainstream quote unquote culture. 

Although I think we all have kind of different main, different communication styles, and there’s a lot of assumption made about folks, whether it’s their level of intelligence, whether it’s their level of courtesy, whether or not they’re paying attention, right? There’s all this kind of, when we see someone who’s, who’s who, their external behavior looks different than what we’re expecting, we tend to make an, an assumption or make a diagnosis that we are so not able to make. 

But any ideas on that? How to broach that conversation as a group and having people kind of, you know, you don’t want to make people disclose like, Hey, we want everybody to characterize yourself, but open it up for people to be a little more, giving people grace and not jumping to conclusions about people, which I think is an ableist kind of activity. 

Allyson: Yeah. I mean, I am. By far, not an expert in this one, but I mean, I would say people aren’t necessarily going to be super open in groups. I don’t know if a group setting is going to be the best, but I mean, it’s definitely like soft facilitation. I think it’s okay. Like people know. People may know that they’re not kind of fitting society’s norms, and so you can just say, Hey Alex, it’s not that time to talk right now. 

Or, Hey Alex, I’ve got the floor. Can you hold on one second? Yeah. So, I think it’s okay, and I think it’s okay to normalize that again, people show up in different ways, right? And so, recognizing that, I think it’s the strong facilitation technique is like being comfortable and being able to drive the conversation a little bit, especially if you’re in a group, you don’t want someone to disclose. I’ve got Tourette’s. Like maybe if they do have Tourette’s, you should maybe talk to them about like, hey, you’re constantly cussing. Can we talk about this? Yeah. And then you’re going to have to have a conversation with them about what does showing up look like and how can I advocate for you and make people comfortable. 

Yeah. I think people at the end of the day know that you’re not always going to vibe well with everybody else in the group. So how do you do your best to, to make people comfortable and challenge people? I mean, I think the other thing too is, are people allowed to show up in a way that’s comfortable for them? 

Like. You should also make sure that your other volunteers are not being super ableist or racist or sexist. Right. All of those other, we also need to hold our volunteers accountable to those things too, which again, is not easy, not fun, and not always readily apparent either.  

Tobi: Yeah. And with that, that is a great way to end this conversation. I’ve got. Two more questions for you. One is, what are you most excited about in the year ahead?  

Allyson: Oh man. Let’s see. So going back, we started this with sports offline, so excited. The Bay finally has A-W-N-B-A team, so I’m really excited about that. But workwise, I mean, we are really building our community services, which are social recreational programming, and we’re really building it for volunteers and we’re building a strong like young adult program for our community. And so, I’m excited to get those young adults into volunteering as a career, as their way to catalyze their career. I guess I’m trying to say Love it. 

Tobi: Love it. Last question. How can people get in touch with you if they’re interested in learning more? Have a question. Wanna know more about your organization.  

Allyson: Yeah, so about my organization, you can go to Lighthouse SF as in San francisco.org. It’s very confusing. There are many lighthouse. For the blinds across the country, we are the one based in San Francisco Lighthouse for the Blind of visually impaired. 

And then you can always email me directly at a ferrari@lighthousehyphensf.org or get ahold of our volunteer department at volunteer@lighthousehyphensf.org. We’re awesome. Always happy to provide resources as best we can. And if you want to know local, blind, or disabled community groups in your own areas, we’ll do our best to find local ones to you. 

Tobi: Awesome, thank you. And I will put all that in the show notes folks, as well as some of the other things we touched on. I’ll add some links. And Allyson, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you for demystifying and I hope this has given folks courage and, uh, some commitment to making volunteering more accessible to more people, I think everyone has a right to give back to their community no matter what, if they have a wish to do so. And if you found this. Episode helpful. I hope you’ll share it with a friend, and I hope you’ll join us next week. Same time, same place on the Volunteer Nation. Take care everybody.