136 – Getting Back to Neighboring with Breauna Dorelus

November 14, 2024

Episode #136: Getting Back to Neighboring with Breauna Dorelus 

 

In this episode of the Volunteer Nation podcast, Tobi Johnson discusses the concept of neighboring and its importance in building and sustaining volunteer programs with guest, Breauna Dorelus.  

They explore the idea of neighboring as a verb and its role in countering societal divisiveness, fostering community involvement, and ensuring the sustainability of nonprofits. Breauna shares her insights on dismantling harmful volunteer practices and emphasizes the need for community engagement and the reimagination of volunteerism. The pair also address the nuances of navigating identities in outreach work, the necessity of holding space for community feedback, and the importance of reprioritizing community-centered approaches in volunteer management. 

Neighboring – Episode Highlights

• [00:33] – The Importance of Neighboring 
• [01:35] – Introducing Breauna Dorelus 
• [05:12] – Breauna’s Journey from AmeriCorps to Volunteerism 
• [07:47] – The Role of Volunteerism in Today’s World 
• [13:23] – Defining Neighboring and Being Neighborly 
• [26:22] – Challenges and Biases in Volunteer Engagement 
• [36:48] – Practical Steps for Reconnecting with the Community 
• [43:59] – Understanding Volunteer Paradigms 
• [45:48] – Challenges in Volunteer Handbooks 
• [49:00] – Engaging with the Community 
• [51:34] – Addressing Fears and Mistakes 
• [59:49] – Navigating Identity and Professionalism 
• [01:06:42] – Mindsets for Effective Community Development 

Helpful Links

• VolunteerPro Membership Community  
• Volunteer Management Progress Report 
• Volunteer Nation Podcast Episode #127: Volunteer Centric, Community Centric, Organization Centric: What’s the Difference? 
• Volunteer Nation Podcast Episode #122: Rethinking Community Involvement with Ruth Leonard 
• Aspen Institute, Weave: The Social Fabric Project   
• Connecting the Cause  
• Find Breauna on LinkedIn 
• Designing for Dignity Guidebook: Volunteer Opportunities 

Contact Us

Have questions or suggestions for the show? Email us at wecare@volpro.net.

Rate, Review, & Follow Us on Apple Podcasts

If you love the content Tobi shares on the Volunteer Nation podcast, consider rating and reviewing the show! This helps us reach more people – and help more good causes just like yours – successfully engage enthusiastic, dedicated volunteers with less stress and more joy.

Click here, scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars. Then, select “Write a Review” and let us know what you loved most about this episode!

Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast so you don’t miss a thing. Follow now!

Subscribe to ProNews: Our Weekly Resource Roundup

If you’d like to stay up to date on all new podcasts, blogs, freebies, and deals posted on our Tobi Johnson & Associates and VolunteerPro websites, subscribe to our weekly ProNews newsletter.

Every Wednesday, we’ll send you a digest of our freshest content, plus a bonus! Once you confirm your subscription, you’ll get our [Free eBook] The New Volunteer Manager: The First 90 Days.

Episode #136 Transcript: Getting Back to Neighboring with Breauna Dorelus 

Tobi: Welcome everybody to another episode of the volunteer nation podcast. I am your host, Tobi Johnson. And man, do we have a conversation for you today? We’re going to talk about getting to neighboring. This is a conversation that is so timely. It is something we need to start thinking about. It is something that our nonprofits can, and especially our volunteer driven programs can start to teach others. 

Cause I think we’ve lost our way a little bit. And we’ve begun to have a society that’s quite divided and divisive, and that’s not good for community and for community building. We’ve got to get, we’ve got to have the basics, the foundation of neighboring of that skill set to be able to work in community with one another. 

And our problems are so complicated in society right now. I mean, climate change, come on. What? Difficult thing to solve, but there’s a lot of other things that are also challenging to solve for. And they only really can be solved when we’re working in community. So, I think this is super timely. And I’ve got a guest with me today, uh, Breauna Dorelus, who I met just recently, and we just hit it off and started talking about this topic and how helpful it might be to share with you as an audience.  

And so, before I get any further, you know, I just want to, before I introduce Breauna, I just want to say, hey y’all, neighboring is a verb to neighbor is a verb. And we, that means it’s an action we can take. And when community and nonprofits band together, it’s a force multiplier in our communities. 

It’s a force multiplier for change. It’s a force multiplier for transformation. Certainly, people in our community, there’s individuals that are superheroes doing things, making things happen on their block or in their household or wherever. And there’s nonprofits that are doing amazing work. But when we can combine efforts, I think that is the force multiplier. 

And I also think that the community and the involvement and engagement of community is a very essential key to the sustainability of our sector of the nonprofit sector. And also, the public sector, when we are, you know, kind of doing our work in silos, we are not informed by the community. We often make mistakes. We often are blindsided. We often are working blindly, and we don’t have, so part of it is getting the community involved so the community can inform us on what makes sense, but also that the community can bring skillsets that we may not have and perspectives we may not have. So there’s a lot of reasons why everybody needs this tool. 

basic skill of neighboring that I believe is sort of the foundation to community. And Breauna has a lot more to share with us on this topic. So, I’m going to get started and I’m going to introduce Breauna Dorelus. She’s a cause consultant and founder at Connecting the Cause. A consultancy dedicated to dismantling harmful volunteer practices implemented by organizations and volunteers specifically towards black communities. 

She started her career as an AmeriCorps member and spent 10 plus years in various volunteer management roles in humanitarian aid efforts. Refugee resettlement and ministry. Breauna believes in community inclusion in all aspects of the volunteer process. Hence our conversation on neighboring y’all and has dedicated her work, ensuring that service is centered around co dreaming and not harmful charity. 

And I love that for the past seven years in her consultancy, she has served as a keynote. Speaker session and webinar host trainer and facilitator and builder. She has worked on multiple projects, helping co create ethos, philosophy, and practices for those who wish to walk alongside others. What a great way to put it, Breauna. 

Her heart work is connected to seeing others have moments of reckoning and re imagination as they move from charity to co dreaming in her spare time. She loves playing with dinosaurs and her four- and two-year-olds thrifting and having a hot matcha latte, which you had this morning, right? So, Breauna, welcome to the pod. 

Breauna: Yay. I’m here. Thank you. So much for having me.  

Tobi: Yeah. It took us a minute, right? We’re right into this because this is so good in your bio. We talked a little bit. You, you started in nonprofits as an AmeriCorps member, which is so many people start in national service. How did you get in from AmeriCorps into work that specifically supports volunteerism? Was it part of your AmeriCorps work or did you kind of use that as a jumping off point?  

Breauna: Yeah, no, great question. So, uh, when I started off in AmeriCorps, I was in AmeriCorps Vista. So, I didn’t work with direct projects but worked with more organizational pursuits. So, I was in marketing and communications. 

The marketing communications piece wasn’t so much my shtick. And so, um, but I did love telling stories. And I did love connecting with people. So, there was an opportunity, uh, to open to serve again as an AmeriCorps VISTA leader. And in that role, I found that that volunteer engagement of igniting other people that were alongside me, they were experiencing the same in my cohort, that giving them encouragement. 

And amplifying their voices, that was like, wait a second. What is this? Whatever this is, what I want to do. And so, I quickly started seeing that the things that I was doing within the cohort, um, directly aligned with volunteer engagement as I was, working on recruiting and supporting other AmeriCorps members. 

I was conducting the AmeriCorps member meetings. I was the one giving them the AmeriCorps week cheerleader hoorahs. I was like, wait, what is this? And so that really propelled me into learning more about volunteer engagement, uh, as a actual profession. And then it started allowing me to connect the dots. I’ve done this before when I was 17 and before when I was 20 in college. And so thatsortd of catapulted that journey.  

Tobi: Fantastic. It’s such a common story of folks getting into community where I think AmeriCorps is a great place to start, kick off work in nonprofits and understand, you know, how the sector kind of works and get into community and do interesting work and not feel as pressured, uh, as you As you know, if you’re a nonprofit worker and you’ve got to meet outcomes like daily and you’ve got crises and this and that, I mean it gives people a little, little bit of space to percolate and there’s a little bit more professional development and support I think for new, for folks who are doing national service. 

So it’s a great place for people to start. Let’s talk about volunteerism in general. You know, you’ve been working in the field for a while. Why do you think it’s so important? today in today’s world? What, what a big question we, as we are navigating the world in which we live in.  

Breauna: Yeah, it’s, it’s so important today because through all the noise and the fluff and the divisiveness and the way that people are sticking to certain beliefs. 

We must go back to the foundation. Of course, we know that radical means getting back to the root. And so, when we think about being radical in the ways that we want to connect with others, there’s an intentionality that has to take place. Um, to do that. And that’s why I think it’s so important now to say, you know what, let me dial back, let me look right at my values and let me see if those values are actually being lived out in the ways that I serve in the way that I connect. 

Tobi: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think volunteerism gives us that opportunity if it’s facilitated or people are just for self-reflective by nature or have learned how to be self-reflective to, I’m right now I’m writing a book for volunteers who lead and I, my model is a leadership from the inside out model where you start with who am I, what do I believe, what are causes that align with me because I believe that leaders can’t really lead well in an organization. 

Where they don’t really feel passionate, and that passion comes from an identification. Now it can be, you know, it doesn’t mean the thing that you’re helping serve around is the thing that happened to you in your life. But that you understand it and you have a value set that is, is in alignment. And so, I love that, that volunteering gives us the opportunity to live out our values in a really, you know, purposeful way in community. 

Breauna: You know, I also think in that same vein, volunteerism offers the opportunity for us to be challenged in our perceptions and sort of kind of shore up what we actually believe, you know, it gives us the opportunity to live it out, but also say, wait a second, something may disrupt. What I feel to be true and am I open and willing, uh, to go down, you know, that route to see where I land, you know, 10 years ago, if you asked me certain questions, I would absolutely have a different thought process, a different thinking. 

And so I think there is this piece of giving yourself grace and allowing yourself to grow as you. Experience volunteerism, and you’d not see it necessarily as an extraction for I’m doing it so I can grow, but within that you are taking the opportunity to say, Am I opening myself enough to if I experience a particular opportunity and I meet someone and I have a particular narrative in my head about who this person is, and then that narrative is disrupted. 

Okay. Now that I know that narrative is disrupted, what does it look like for me to live out in a possibly different way and to share that narrative moving forward, I think is also a good piece of a good challenge for volunteerism too.  

Tobi: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I can remember, you know, working when I started working with, uh, homeless youth in San Francisco, I had a certain perception of who, Unhoused people were right. 

Yeah. I was interested in supporting, obviously I wouldn’t apply, apply for the job. And I built a program from scratch. They wanted to put together an employment and training program, which included volunteers. I developed a volunteer mentor program to go along with that. And the more I got to know the young people and understand what got them where they were. 

The more possibilities we saw for getting them connected with work and with different, even informational interviews, just, and we, we, we had an open unfettered belief in whatever anybody wanted to attain. And we’re like, great, let us show you how you could attain that. There was never a question like this, and when you think about people who are unhoused and homeless, there’s a lot of limitations we put on people that we’re seeing on the street. 

We think that there’s no hope, there’s no place they can go, there’s no place they can transform to. But you know, what I learned was it, especially with the young people we were working with, I was like, you know what no, limitless here. You just need to get on the right track, and you need support, and we have support if you want to make the choice to take that journey. 

It’s up to you. But we have support here and we believe in you completely 110 percent and that transformation in our, in my individual belief set and, in the volunteers, as well as when they started working with them. I saw it happen with folks like, oh, light bulb went off. Oh, I’ll make a light bulb. 

Unlimited potential here because I think a lot of times one of our biases when we look at other people and we have, we don’t understand their perspective very well is a limitation in what we think they could achieve or where they could go in their life. So that’s one way I think my biases were challenged. It was very cool.  

Breauna: Yeah. It’s beautiful.  

Tobi: Yeah. Yeah, it’s cool. Good stuff. So, let’s talk about neighbor being neighborly. This is what our conversation is about. When you think about being neighborly, what comes to mind? How would you define it? How? How would you define this and create? Let’s create the foundation for our conversation today. What do we mean by neighborly?  

Breauna: When I think of neighborly, I’m going to just throw out my lived experiences because it’s so much, uh, I think it is more impactful to be able to feel it, see it, touch it, then give like the definition, right? So, I think about my dad, I think about my dad, he’s a farmer, he’s also just this bright light who doesn’t meet a stranger. And I grew up with my dad introducing me to cousins all day long, every day. Hey, Bri, let me introduce you to someone really quick. This your cousin. Hey, Bri, let me introduce you to someone really quick. This is your cousin. I learned from my dad, just this connection of community care, knowing that these folks were not actually my cousins. 

They were not blood related. They came from all walks of life, from all socioeconomic statuses, from all lived experiences. I wasn’t introduced to them by these markers of respectability, of like, oh, this is this professor, or this is the person who has this marker or indicator of dignity, right? 

I just heard this was your cousin. And so, um, For my childhood, that definition for me was if I see that person and I’m in a bind, I can call on them, or there’s a familiar face that I can see in a crowd, or, you know, if I needed protection, if there was safety or if I felt unsafe, I knew that there was these cousins around and my father was actually just building a tapestry for me, just around my community. 

And so, with that, I had cousins from all walks of life. Hey cousin. Hey cousin. There were folks who were at my dinner table who I had not ever seen before, who I was introduced to for the first time while we were eating together. There were folks who lived with us for a week. two weeks, a month, who needed to get back on their feet. 

My mom was in youth ministry and after church, there were times that I wanted to go in my room and decompress. I’m an introvert and I wanted to take a deep breath and there were all these kids around. Um, some kids I knew, some kids I didn’t. And so it was, it was that form of safety and protection and this form of not avoiding conflict and just being in it with each other. And the conflict didn’t represent the relationship. And it ended up being able to, you know, have a conversation about something, disagree, and then make a meal together. And so, just the notion of disagreement equals disconnection was not something that was a part of my childhood, a part of my upbringing. 

So, when I’m thinking about these concepts of neighboring, and then to fast forward to AmeriCorps, I’m thinking, yes, where I’m entering this thing called the nonprofit sector, surely, I will see these things mirrored in this space. Right? Not so much. 

And so, I started to look. You know, this disconnect between what I thought was helpful and what I thought was neighboring and a sector for which I thought that it encapsulated, like that was the thing I was just doing it professionally, which ended up being. Really opposites in a lot of different ways, not always, but in a lot of different ways. 

I couldn’t really connect the ways that my family and my community had created a safe space for me and that the constructs in the nonprofit sector were not there for me to fully walk in that in a way that felt just organic. It felt adversarial ways to that journey.  

Tobi: Yes, yes, yes, and yes. So, I’m hearing neighborly, being neighborly or, you know, the act of neighboring is kind of the verb of being neighborly, creating a safe space for others, being that safe space. 

I’m hearing from you, there’s a certain type of familiarity, familial familiarity, like cousins. I come from a big family. My grandmother had like 10 kids and 20 some kid grandkids and 20 some great grandkids and like 12 great great grandkids. So, we know family, so I get that familiarity and just like we’re always inviting everybody, you know, every if we’re ha if we’re doing something We’re always inviting everybody not avoiding conflict and conflict doesn’t equal of a relationship. 

In fact, sometimes it means a, in my experience, if you can do it well, it tightens a relationship. Yes. And it’s almost an expectation of mutual support. You know, I’m going to give and you’re going to give back, you know? Um, so I love that idea of being neighborly and neighboring. I also can completely relate to, The nonprofit space, even internally, like I think we could think of neighboring as a verb that we might enact in a community, but also within our own organizations with each other as staff, volunteers, et cetera. 

And I have been in organizations where it is not neighborly, and it is adversarial, and it feels toxic. So, it’s sort of the antithesis of that, right? We’re here. And you know, if it’s a community-based organization, shouldn’t we be the best at doing community?  

Breauna: That part. I mean, that part. If we, if we look at, if we just take just a random sample of mission statements, a random sample of vision statements, right? 

From nonprofit organizations. All of them are like, yes, yes, yes. I believe in that. I believe in that. I believe in that. And then. As we start to peel back the layers, how much of that value from that mission, from that vision is embedded in the daily activities of programming, of open conflict, of being able to explore and innovate, um, of that mission being shared. 

Within an internal perspective, when it comes to volunteers, do volunteers recognize and see that it’s not just a billboard sign, but there are practical ways in which volunteer engagers and staff are communicating, and this is how. We live that out and embody it, uh, throughout our day to day. And I think that is, is what’s so important. 

Tobi, I’ve been in conversations when I’m doing consulting projects and there are big DEI statements or statements on inclusion and the black and brown folks that are in the organization are like BS. Like that’s, I don’t know what you’re saying out there, but in here, right? So how much more if we, you know, bring it back to neighboring, if, black and brown folks, you know, folks that have been historically marginalized, historically excluded, feel that connectedness that I can come into these doors. 

I can hop on this zoom and feel that type of neighboring that fuels me. And gives me an example that I can live out this value in an institutionalized way and in a way that feels good to me as I connect with community, as I connect with clients. And so, we have a grave responsibility that it’s not just, you know, talking the talk, but also walking the walk. 

And that also means for volunteer engagers, when you have a new learning or something that has shaped in you, how much of it is your responsibility to share that with other volunteers and conversation with the ways that, you know, we do applications or recruitment processes or whatever the case may be, it’s getting back to that neighboring. And I do believe that neighboring can happen even in these oppressive systems, because that’s going to remind us of while we’re fighting the systems in the first place.  

Tobi: Yeah, I mean, I think it is a, you know, it’s interesting to see the sort of what gets lost in translation between stated values and organizational culture in that journey of how it, you know, walk in the talk. 

There is a break. I’ve seen this, Yeah, I’ve seen this in organization. I remember one organization I was working for and it was on the value statement was on our paychecks, but I could see that it wasn’t being lived out, you know, and it was an organization that was, I’ll give you one example of some of the many ways that I felt like the organization wasn’t following through. 

But here was one and I’m not going to name names, but it was all about economic prosperity for everyone in communities. But some of the people that worked at the organization weren’t paid a living wage based on the research that the own organization had actually supported and conducted to find out what is an average in that community, in that region, an hourly wage that was, that could support a family. 

And they were paying people below that full time people. And I was like, okay. That’s a, that’s a, that’s a practical way that the values are not being lived out in the organization’s institutional decisions and, and thus, culture, because those people probably didn’t feel valued. You know, I was at a director level, and I could see that, well, that’s just one way, but I see how that gets lost in translation. 

I love the idea. of using the lens of neighboring, not only from an institutional standpoint, but also from an individual standpoint, because we do, we can influence other people. It’s called leadership. You know, it’s not that we have the responsibility to change an entire organization, especially if we’re not at the top, but we can influence other people and being neighborly, you know. 

I live in the South and it’s a land of chit chat. When I moved from the Pacific Northwest to Knoxville, Tennessee, I soon learned that, you know, you need to have conversations with people in the, in the grocery line. Yep. You don’t do that in Seattle where it’s, you know, people in Seattle are, the area is all indigenous, uh, first nation people. 

People for a lot of Japanese American people, a lot of like my, some of my, uh, background, um, Scandinavians, like my dad says, we’re cold fish, all of it, all very introverted, quiet types of culture. So consequently, the areas, the overwhelming, are not very outgoing, but in the South where we are, you know, it’s outgoing and chit chatty. 

In some ways it’s an easier neighbor, but in other ways it isn’t because there are institutional and there’s legacy ways people fence each other off from one another. When we talk about, you know, we’re, we’re a show that talks about volunteer engagement. What roles can volunteer managers and nonprofits play? 

play in both helping community members externally, or I hate to say externally, because we’re all embedded in community. It’s not like we’re hermetically sealed off from community. Uh, but community members, volunteers, service beneficiaries, how can we all get reacquainted? And is it our responsibility? You know, I put out a premise at the beginning of our show today that I thought it was the responsibility, since this is what we do, that we have, we’re uniquely positioned to promote neighboring. What are your thoughts on that?  

Breauna: Yeah, that’s good. I think before the question of re-acquainting others as volunteer engagers, we need to reacquaint ourselves. Um, And I think it’s, I want to shout out to every volunteer engager out there who is navigating this very hard rhythm between policy, process, procedure, and then people. 

And trying to navigate the ways in which people can come first in what seems sometimes to be a very stale rigid, um, systematic structure that we are trying to insert people in versus people being like at the center of that, right? And so, I want to say that I’m there, you know, with you. I have been there navigating, you know, you know, development wants this story, and they want it spun a particular way, or the development folks are asking for numbers, but we want to share about different types of impact, right? 

And so, I want to make that known. And I feel as if, if we are specifically dedicated to the value of neighboring to people, right? It is our responsibility to take from community developers, take from and, and sit at the feet of the grandmothers in the neighborhood, uh, talk to the community shifters who are. 

At the ground level, we need to get back on the ground. And if that practically means taking an hour out of your month, out of your week bi-weekly to have a one-on-one conversation with someone, who’s not necessarily a volunteer, someone who’s just out in the community and getting to know them for that relationship building, not for the extraction of your goals. 

But for the liberation of self, then it will create avenues and more and more avenues for you to be able to embody that as you bring the work back. And so, then as you are having these learnings and these sharing’s, don’t let the learnings and sharing stop with you. Allow it to infiltrate the ways that you practice policy, the way you practice procedure. 

Right. And allowing those things to move there. I think another thing, when we talk about nonprofit CEOs and C suite. It’s so important to recognize the value of volunteer engagement, not for the sense of, of course, we all know butts in seats, right? But for completing the volunteer and the mission of the organization. 

They are not separate. Volunteerism isn’t fluffy. It’s critical. And it’s critical to the byline, you know, of the mission. And so also giving space. To go to conferences, to have budgets for just, you know, what, have a coffee budget. And I want you to go out and talk to folks and use, you can use this coffee card, right? 

For the next three months to be able to just have community conversations. So, I think this reacquainted-ness with neighboring, it absolutely is just this. Ecosystem where volunteer engagers do have that connection and it’s seen as an important connection and the fact that they can bring other people in that connection is so important and I would love to see, you know, not just volunteer engagers, um, being at the forefront of that, but this is an organizational thing, like don’t put it all on the volunteer engager to say, oh, you’re our neighboring person, or you’re the person that holds all the relationships, the HR person all the way down to the I.T. person will have the benefit of the way in which they operate and do their job if they also have one on one conversations with the communities that they are walking alongside.  

There’s a difference between an organization in a community and a community organization and neighbors can tell the difference. You’re either implanted here as this almost this parasite that is just sucking the life out of us. Or if you’re a part of the, of the care that we create holistically for our lives. And so that means going out of four walls, they may not know the name of the organization. But they may know me, and I may represent the organization, right? 

And there’s a perception there. Um, so yeah, I’m going to stop right there cause I’m, I feel like I’m going and going and going.  

Tobi: Well, you know, it’s interesting. I just like a month ago, I’ll link to it in the show notes. I did a podcast episode, a solo show on community centric, volunteer centric and organizational centric and how they were different. 

So, I feel like we’re talking the same language here and how to know what the difference is. And I love this idea of starting with ourselves, but even when we’re developing policies, you know, that I do think we’re a bit, we’ve overdone it on the paperwork side, and we got to get to the people’s side. So, we can do that easily by just whenever we develop policies or, you know, whatever we’re putting in place, we can ask, or we can ask about what we have in place now. 

Is this neighborly? Yep. Just ask it, you know, is this neighborly? Is this policy neighborly? Now, you could even think about coaching, you know, when we’re doing coaching with a volunteer who may not be performing, for example, or there may be an issue with conflict or whatever it is, you know, being neighborly is being truthful. 

If we go back to our original sort of quote unquote definition or what we were talking about what neighborly might look like. Neighborly is being honest. About what we’re feeling and seeing. It’s also being honest about sharing with people what consequences are, what improvement needs to happen, but it’s also being done with compassion, right? 

And, and authenticity. So, I think even for those types of policies, you know, when people call our disciplinary and our grievance policies or those kinds of things that sound really. very dry, you could just say, is this neighborhood neighborly? And just take that as a lens through all and just look at all your policies and procedures. 

Are they neighborly? It’d be really interesting, you know, I challenge y’all to do that. There’s also, you talked about different, People in the community having different roles. You were kind of talking about, you know, who, who are the movers and shakers? Who are the people making the connections? Who are the people who have legacy information and legacy, just history that they want, might want to share. 

The Aspen Institute is doing this project. I’ll link to it as well. They’re looking at community, what they call community weavers. And weavers are, you know, for in, in volunteer management speak, it might be, you know, informal volunteers who are in the community making things happen, you know, weaving things together, being catalysts for change. 

So, you know, I think it, I, when I started nonprofit, I did a lot of community outreach and A lot of, uh, partnership development. And that’s what I did. I went around and talked with people and then I’d ask, well, who else should I talk to? That was always the last question of my talk with somebody. Who else do you think I should talk to? 

And you can learn so much. Uh, and I can see for whatever you’re developing, uh, having that perspective is so valuable. So not only to improve the relationship with the community and the, but also to improve the services to the community or for the community or by the community. So I can see how all this is, well, hey, let’s get more into specifics, but let’s take a quick break from my conversation with Breauna Dorelus about how we can support and reinvigorate the active neighboring, starting with ourselves, right? We will be right back.  

Volunteer Pro Premium Membership 

If you’re enjoying this week’s episode of Volunteer Nation, we invite you to check out the Volunteer Pro Premium Membership. This community is the most comprehensive resource for attracting, engaging, and supporting dedicated high impact volunteers. Volunteer talent for your good cause. 

Volunteer Pro Premium Membership helps you build or renovate an effective volunteer program with less stress and more joy. So, you can ditch the overwhelm and confidently carry your vision forward. And it’s the only implementation program of its kind that helps your organization build maturity across five phases of our proprietary system. The Volunteer Pro Premium. Strategy success path. If you’re interested in learning more, visit volpro.net/join 

We are back with our conversation about how to get back to neighboring and the role nonprofits can play with Breauna Dorelus. Let’s get into specific steps. We started talking about, you know, the paperwork side and looking at things through a neighboring lens and how we can really be a little more self-reflective and maybe imbue that kind of responsibility throughout the organization. 

Of course, it takes an insightful leader to say, yeah, we’re going to do this. And it takes time. You know, when people are strapped for time, once you start building relationships, you also need to maintain them because a neighbor doesn’t like to leave people in the lurch. They don’t like to say, hi, get their needs met and disappear.  

That’s not how it works when you’re neighboring. That’s another thing about neighboring is being consistent. Consistent. Yes. Consistent. So what specific steps would you recommend that leaders of volunteers take to reconnect to community at the grassroots level? Are there any things you might recommend off the top? You know, sort of top line things where you’re like, you should do this.  

Breauna: Yeah, absolutely. Going back to what I alluded to earlier, taking time, which is a rhythm, out of your schedule and incorporating one on one times with folks. With folks. And I think we do this often with volunteers 

We take out the time and listen to volunteers, hear about their feelings, their thoughts, their perceptions, but very rarely do we take an opportunity to think about the end user, right, of the service or who’s being the most impacted in ways that really influence their livelihood and they’re thriving, they’re flourishing. 

So absolutely being able to do that number two being able to navigate the ways in which bias and saviorism and racism pop up in the ways that you lead. That is not a one and done thing. There is no bright and shiny gold medal at the end of that. That is a personal intention to say, I am going to continue to do that. 

Me, as a Black woman, I continue to see the ways in which I am not showing up for other underestimated folks who are not like me. I am also doing the same thing. So, I don’t get a pass. So no one gets a pass for having to constantly, you know, navigate that and see in the ways in which, you know, that shows up number three, look and see the ways you are professionalizing people out of this, out of this, look at the ways in which you are saying, you know, what. 

There are a lot of barriers here to showing up and just having a conversation. Can people connect with me? Can I connect with them? What forms of mechanism of feedback are there, right? Being able to sort of kind of build away from those barriers and really allow people to find you and for you to find them. 

That is as simple as walking. Maybe down the street, right, for your lunch break and just seeing the atmosphere and seeing what’s around versus having lunch with your colleagues in the office or going to, you know, a lunch spot. Right? That means being able to say, you know what? I know that this volunteer was involved with this family. 

Let me go down to programs. I would love to talk to that family and just have a conversation with them. It’s consistency. of being able to show up like you said earlier. So those are some very practical things that I can think of just, you know, off the top of my head of what it looks like to neighbor and to be in a place where you are open to the possibilities of developing relationships that are not Based on job that are not based on KPIs that are not based in goals. 

But we know that, and Ruth Evans says this at Focus Community Strategies. She specifically, you know, talks about the ways in which our values must align with our actions. And so how do you practically align your values with actions? You put things on the calendar, and your schedule. and you be out and about and you open yourself up for that relationship to happen. 

And I know it can be very hard for us to do, but as Pam Stringfield also says, that is the work. There is no work if that’s not the work. And so there is a reprioritization of what is the work. And a lot of people will say is the providing of service through volunteerism is not work. 

The work is liberation and dignity and respect and using and utilizing the tool of volunteerism. To break down the barriers to that, that is the work and so we must refocus and recenter. Right. You were talking about communities, um, centrism earlier. I’ll say this one last thing about practicality. 

David Park has a framework. Around the solar system and putting a community and service providers and nonprofits in the right place, and I love to adapt this for the ways in which we communicate volunteerism. If you think about the solar system, you think about the sun being in the middle and all the planets sort of kind of circulating around it when we put volunteer program. 

As the sun, when we put organization as the sun donor as the sun, the community, the clients, the neighbors, they are gravitationally going around that we need to put the community back as the sun and we ourselves are rotating right around community, rotating around the sun. And so, the sun as a community is giving us light. 

Right? And it’s also pulling us gravitationally into the solutions, the successes, the resources that we need to thrive. And so, as we think about that, you know, in a very practical way, what ways are you centering volunteer? Only and not centering community, not centering, neighboring, and being able to really look at that at a practical, at a practical level through your daily practices. 

Tobi: Yeah, I mean it makes me think about the paradigm of volunteerism from the volunteer perspective, which is I’m here to change the world. That’s a big paradigm, right? Uh, sometimes it’s, I’m here to save somebody else and we have got to help people understand that’s not what they’re here to do. You know, we’re here to help provide support, resources, et cetera, but people have to make their own decision about their own change and level of change. 

But also, you know, that’s kind of where the volunteer, I like to say, you know, volunteers don’t volunteer because they want to work for free. Like they don’t go around like, let me find a job. I need a job description for a job. That’s not paying me. Right. Like that. That’s not why people volunteer. That’s not their paradigm in their head. 

Their paradigm in their head is like, look, I want to be part of my community. I want to see some transformation. I want to be, I want to live my values of in it. And I want to help transform in a certain way. With a certain cause and the way we, uh, the paradigm in most nonprofits is still, uh, we’re looking for, you know, unpaid workers to do these unpaid jobs and we got all this paperwork and, you know, we got you to go through this and I’m not saying like we don’t need to do, I need to always caveat this. 

I’m not saying like everything goes. And we’re not, you know, making sure we are doing risk management and making sure people were people, all people are protected so that we can do more, not less. Right. And, you know, I like this, you know, so I think about like the two paradigms and they’re just completely, we’ve lost our way. 

And if you think about back in the heyday of when most nonprofits were started, which was in the 1960s and seventies, a lot, there was a huge boon in nonprofit organizations starting up. Uh, they were all started inside community that they were, the community was the incubator and, you know, and they were working in community for a long time. 

And, and as you noted, professionalism became the barrier as we professionalize, it creates a barrier between us. and folks in the community. And, and, you know, in some ways, I think it’s a way some people enjoy done it, don’t enjoy, but find comfort in the barrier because they don’t want to be uncomfortable and find out that they may, you know, be acting in a certain way that might not be cool with people in the community, or they may have certain understandings of the community that might be just dead on wrong, you know. 

Breauna: Yeah, you know, there’s, there’s something interesting that comes up in my head as you, as you talk a little bit about that. Um, oftentimes, as far as projects are concerned with organizations, I look at their volunteer handbook. And literally bake into their handbook the ways in which to be a co dreamer and co dreaming principles. 

And so one of the things that I constantly see all the time with volunteer handbooks is how much there is policy after policy after policy around protection of the volunteer and no protection of the community. And I think that it needs to be there. I think that it is a critical part of the handbook and being able to say this is how you operate in relationship with the communities that we are, that we walk alongside, that we’re connected to. 

There are so many ways in which we want to even protect volunteers from community members. And it’s shown and that emphasizes. This feeling of they’re violent, or they, they need your paternalistic support, or the ways in which don’t do this, don’t do that, don’t do this, don’t do that. And it’s so much don’ts from a volunteer perspective that it really villainizes the community, honestly, in a lot of ways, so that And I hear this in orientations. 

I’ve been in tons of volunteer orientations where they’re like, it’s almost a, I’m going to be blunt. It’s almost a, you’re at a zoo and it’s the sign, don’t feed the animals. Like that’s the feeling that I see in a lot of policies and procedures that we use the guise of professionalism when really, it’s creating more and more barriers to not see people with dignity. 

But to see them as projects that need to be solved and that they don’t have their own autonomy to be able to bring forth solution. And so just small wordings and changes around, you are not just bringing good. You know, you are bringing good to an already good place. I mean, it’s, it’s transformative in the way we even think about communities. 

There are policies around not being neighborly in terms of, you know, make sure you, You lock up your belongings so, you know, community members won’t feel tempted to take them. No, lock up your belongings because there are also some volunteers who aren’t great people. Like, just, just say that too, right? 

Like, just from anybody, you don’t even have to call out. You don’t have to call that out and create, you know, those, those barriers of not seeing people as neighbors, of not seeing people, you know, with that, with that dignity that they already hold. And so, I think that there’s a lot of places and, and pieces where we can shore this up and being more neighborly. 

Tobi: Yeah. It reminds me of the conversation I had with Ruth Leonard on the podcast few months ago. She wrote a book on, I’ll link to it in the show notes, but she wrote a book and recently published a book on, um, volunteer engagement and theory and practice. But there’s a whole chapter that is a critical chapter of volunteerism in general and volunteer management. 

And she asked the question, is volunteerism. Inherently good. I like, we never even questioned each other. Well, no volunteers can do harm all kinds of all over the place and is right now in some organizations, not only the community, but also to volunteers. You know, you were talking about the way that the community is portrayed in volunteer handbooks and policies. 

I also see that in the way volunteers are portrayed. In this, this way of speaking about volunteers as unpaid workers for once, for at a different level, not considered equal, not considered there’s that kind of, so I think the way we frame anybody at, you know, cause vol and that volunteers are somehow not part of our community either. 

Absolutely. This is why volunteerism is a great opportunity. If you’re going to start understanding your community and you have volunteers from your community, if you’re feeling like, you know, a little bit shy about going out and meeting with people, start talking with your volunteers that live in the communities you’re serving. 

You can start there. That’s safe. You know, I mean, relatively speaking, you know, and then get out in the community, start meeting with people. You learn so much. People are, you know, nowadays people who don’t want to pick up the phone. You know, they just, they don’t want to reach out. We all want to stay on our screens. 

But once you break through that fear, because I know people I’ve talked to people, they’re like, oh no, I break out in a cold sweat when I must pick up the phone and call somebody. No, I’m not going to do that. I’m telling you, gang, break through that fear. Be open to what you’re going to learn. And it will be a joyous experience for the most part, unless there’s somebody in the community who’s had a bad experience with your nonprofit. 

And I’m sorry, you’re going to hear it. You’re going to hear what they have to say about it. And you can say like, well, this is good. I’m glad I’m learning this from you. Let me see what I can do about that. But these conversations can be really interesting, and people don’t want to talk about their community. 

It’s not like they want to hide the information. If you’re interested in honest and authentic. They’ll share and it could be an interesting conversation, you know, but I think people are afraid. Really? What do you recommend? You know, we talked about people who may be afraid to reach out because harm was done to the community perpetrated by their organization or by some people in their organization. 

That may be one reason they’re saying things like, I don’t want to get out there and put myself out there. I’m the person representing now and I’ve been that person that’s representing an organization, and I’ve come back to the organization and had to tell them. Like, hey, you know what, we are not in the eyes of the community and we’re not doing the right thing. 

So, we’re going to have to change some things or not do what we’re doing. But so, people be afraid. That’s one fear. One fear is that they’re going to make a mistake. Which I must tell everybody, you are going to make a mistake. Everybody does. This is just how it is. We can’t read everybody’s mind. We’re not 110 percent educated about every situation. 

Things are evolving quickly. I know language, you try to keep up with language and how it’s evolving. Right. So, what do you recommend for folks to, whatever the, the source of their fear might be to get out there.  

Breauna: Especially when it comes to, I think certain fears warrant certain behaviors, right? So, if there’s a fear that you’re going to be out there as a representative for an organization that has caused harm and you are worried about the backlash, I need you to hear the backlash and hold it. I need you to hold it. I need you to be a container for that, because a part of the work is repair. And so, I want you to sit with the perceived and real or real discomfort of what that looks like to have someone who has been harmed and you holding it is far easier than the person who’s on the other end that received the harm in the first place, who was actually living it and it’s now a part of their memory. 

And it’s now potentially a part of their story, right? So, you take accountability for the fact that you are connected to an organization that has been a part of harm and hold it. And then being able to ask yourself, how do I honor this information that brings dignity to this person? How do I hold this information? 

And how do I look at it and ask myself, and I, and I say this, you know, question all the time, what is in my power to repair and rebuild and being able to not over promise. Oh, I’m so sorry. We did this to you. I’m going to go back to the CEO and we’re going to get this straightened out right away. 

And you just, you wait, right? Cause that’s another cause of potential harm of an unmet expectation of repair. So sometimes it is that hold it and I’m going to sit with this and we absolutely have this urgency to fix but in our fixing let us not become saviors and then do it for them, right, when sometimes folks just need a voice, a microphone so they can amplify their own voice. 

Right. They have a voice. It needs to be amplified in the right places and spaces. And then there is this relationship part of, I remember, um, a particular situation with a community member and someone saying like, you know what? I’m going to just keep having these conversations with you. And I’m going to keep holding it and I’m going to keep learning and navigating. 

And some folks, like you said earlier, will sit and they will talk, and they will share, but also don’t turn it into a case study of traumatic experience for you to be able to have under your belt. Right. This is about being in relationship with people and thinking about, is there something in my power to repair and rebuild personally by me being able to hold it professionally, by me being able to bring it to the right person, if this is a volunteer engagement thing, Oh, I can definitely do something about that potentially. 

Right? And being able to also hear not just what you want to see done, but what does it look like for you to show up in solutions in the process, if that’s what you want to do right as the as the community member. And so I think there is that fear there of this is volunteer engagement, hard community development work, and some volunteer engagers don’t put on the hat of community development and just grassroots work. 

And I need you, I’m sorry, I know you got 50 hats. I need you to add those hats too. I need you to, I need you to put that on. Because that’s a critical part of thinking about the end user, in terms of the service and the impact, just as much as the process of the service itself. So, I know that there is, you know, fear there, but it’s so important to hold it, embrace it, and not look at fear as a negative, but look at it like, okay, if I’m fearful, that means I am in this. 

That means I care about this. That means that, you know, I want to be in it, but I’m scared. I don’t know how to be in it, but I want to be in it. So, I’m going to try to be in it. And in being in it, I am going to mess up. And things are going to happen and embrace every bad scenario if you need to and say, and next, and that may happen and next. Right. Um, so there’s an intentionality there. That’s important. I’m just dealing with that fear.  

Tobi: Yeah. I think too, one way I, when I have, you know, challenging conversations or have in the past, I just lean in, like, tell me more, tell me more about that. Let me make sure I understand that. Right. And I think you’re right. 

Like we can’t, we are not at any level as the leaders of volunteers, we don’t have the power to change our entire organization’s culture. We can certainly. Change how we act. We can certainly influence others. And you know, there’s been times where I’ve left organizations because I knew that I had done as much work as I could there. 

Yes. And that, and that it was like, you know what, it isn’t going to change anymore. And there was a point where I didn’t want to be the representative of that organization. But it took me a while to get there. I didn’t give up right away. You know, and there’s cultures that no matter what you do, they’re not going to change. 

And if they’re damaging to you, then you need to move on because you shouldn’t be, you know, you need to be robust, vibrant. You can’t have been in a situation where you’re, well, I mean, to the level you want to put up with, you should choose how much you want to put up with. But yeah, I think I like this idea of understanding clearly. And I think you have, you need to be in conversation with your supervisor or whoever you’re working with your team leader to understand your level of power before you go into the community. So, you know what you can promise and not promise. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then you can communicate that, and you can communicate commitment. 

My commitment to you is to show up when I say I’m going to be here. My commitment to you is to listen and understand to the best of my ability. My commitment to you and your community or your organization or your team, and your group to communicate what I hear back to you. The powers that be in my organization. 

There are so many things that don’t necessarily mean my commitment to you is to fix this and make it perfect. Yeah. You know, people are happy to hear all those other commitments as well, you know, they don’t have to have, you know, people understand that nobody has a magic wand.  

Breauna: Yeah, you know, I want to say two things on a check mark plus to those is recognizing and seeing, you know, volunteer engagers. 

And leaders who also hold the same identity as those in community and that holds the same lived experience where you are also battling and what’s something I’ve battled so many times in my career, these That’s Seemingly that shouldn’t be opposed, but are opposed in many ways. In what ways am I showing up as an organization? 

And in what ways am I showing up as neighbor? And I think having to navigate that specifically as a Black woman who Is in nonprofit spaces that are, you know, mostly held by white folks. And then I am either the tokenized person to go out to go repair that harm, you know, uh, because you know, them, or, you know, speak to us, speak to them through us, you know, because they’re going to listen to you. 

Right. There are so many. That will that can fill a hole in the podcast so many feelings of guilt and shame and the intersection of professionalism and being in a Black body, but also having certain privileges by way of education, socioeconomic status, that really, there’s a lot of stuff that embodies the way in which Black and Brown volunteer engagers show up in the community. 

And if you have Nonprofit missional goals that are not aligned with the successes of the community. Then the folks that look like me are going to look at me and say, you are also the enemy. What does that do to me as someone who sees them as villages? Right. Who sees them as those are my people, but you’re saying, no, I don’t know about you because you also represent this space.  

I just want to call that out and say that that is a thing that we have to constantly navigate and deal with and, and sit with all the time. I would just leave that there.  

Tobi: Oh, that is so good. I’m so glad you brought that up because I’m speaking from my experience of a white woman. Going out and communities are different than me and being that representative and being uncomfortable with that. 

Now, imagine adding the next layer on and the push and pull and the gear shifting that you have to do constantly to figure out what identity you’re presenting now or whose values or whose interests are you advocating for now and risking. Yes. You know, risking your status in a community that you care about. 

I mean, there’s a lot going on there, I think too, for volunteers, you know, we’ll bring on volunteers and go, well, you, you as a volunteer represent x, y, Z community. In fact, it is a diversity, equity, and inclusion strategy to find volunteers. Who are diverse. Yes. And work with them to work in, in, to outreach into new communities. 

So, I think that it is important to also call out for volunteers themselves to understand that you are also asking volunteers to take on that added burden. Yes. And they need to understand and they, they need to be, we need to be very open to hearing feedback about what’s not working. So that they are not hung out to dry. 

Right. Paid staff as well. That goes without saying, well, it should go without saying it is doesn’t, but you know what I mean? But when we’re doing this with volunteers as well, who are doing outreach for us that are doing, you know, whatever they’re doing, they’re tabling at a volunteer fair or in the community at a fair, they’re, they’re providing service in a new area, in a new facility or a new spot, a new could be a new partner organization. 

We have volunteers that are working there. Anywhere it is, they are our representatives. And if we’re not doing right by the community, they’re going to get the blow back, not us in our office or cubicle back at home HQ.  

Breauna: Absolutely. It’s this piece where someone who is not black bodied can take on and off the hat of inclusivity when they’re nine to five sort of kind of ends, right. 

But I have to go back and be in community with folks who look at me. As having different types of forms of professionalism, right, that I have to then say, um, oh, you know, today I’m, I’m just Bree, you know, I’m not coming in as consultant, right, but having to sort of kind of navigate that is a, is a very hard thing. 

And even, I’m so glad you brought up even in as volunteers. Right. Having to be in specific instances where we’re going to put you in this community because we know, and it’s like, are you putting me there because you know that I connect? Are you putting me there because you are afraid and you don’t have them, or you don’t have the connection. 

So, what I need you to do instead is build and support the connection and not have an easy way-out card by using me as the person to be at the front. And I think that that is so important as we engage volunteers, as we think about, you know, DEI, as we go back to neighboring. Neighboring is not you putting me out there because you want me to get the brunt.  

Of whatever comes that, you know, that way. And I’m going to be able to hold that. And I think that’s important to navigate too. And I love what you said earlier of, and particularly, you know, with Black women, if it’s time for you to go, because you are feeling, yourself as being just put up to the plank and over and repeatedly. 

And you are within your body feeling completely unsettled day after day after day. It is, it makes no good sense to tout diversity and equity and inclusion and belonging and neighboring or whatever words, and you are not giving that to yourself. You must give it to yourself to recognize how to embody it for other people as well in the fullest way. 

And so, I think that we also must be real about the ways in which we are navigating this space and how can we be neighborly to ourselves? You know, it’s important to, um, take good care of ourselves as we’re, as we’re walking through this as well.  

Tobi: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You have got to put on your mask first before helping others. As we think about this, we’ve kind of intimated and talked about attitudes and mindsets, but what are the attitudes and mindsets you think are most helpful for leading authentic grassroots to grass tops kind of? community development and the way we’re, we’re talking about it. You know, we’re not talking, we’re talking about a different way of being and gang, I would call out, yes, this may feel like added work, but it really, like you said, it’s, it’s a reprioritization of the work. 

That’s the first mindset that comes to mind to me. Is to not see it as added work, see it as a re-prioritization and that it will make your result better. Like folks are like, well, when I’m doing this, I’m not meeting my KPIs. Well, I can guarantee you that if you are doing community work and you understand the community better, you will get better at volunteer recruitment. 

You will get better at improving the volunteer experience. If volunteers are from that community, you will get better at your client services. If you’re doing direct service. Or if you’re, even if you’re an arts and culture organization, you’ll get better at your curation of events and programming because the connection will make you more informed. 

So, it’s not that it will make you more efficient and effective as an organization if you need to speak the language of leadership, which is the language of leadership, right? You know, so there’s a connect. It’s not added on. It’s nice to have. Yeah. We want to follow through on our DEI efforts. We want to be, you know, when we want to be in line with those, I’m telling you right now, it’s going to make your organization more impactful. 

Breauna: Yes. 100%. I love. Yes. The mindset is that prioritization piece, which you just spoke of so beautifully. I think not fearing work that you won’t see the fruits of in your lifetime. I think that that’s important that you’re not afraid. Of the what if I don’t see the results in five years, what if I don’t see the results in 10 years like seeds are so important and being able to do what you can in that moment in time, not playing it small. 

But playing it effectively, I think, is important as far as a mindset. If we’re thinking about this large picture of mobilizing movements of volunteers to dismantle oppressive systems. That’s not happening in your two years of being at an organization, right? Like that That’s not going to happen there. 

Also, it’s not going to happen often within an organization. It’s going to also have to happen as you’re just a citizen human being living out values of service in your life. That is the work that has no end because you’re going to hopefully be doing that until the day you can’t. So there is this mindset of leaning into the longevity of what it means to just keep showing up and knowing that there are other people in other parts of the planet that are also showing up in this good work and that you are It’s your responsibility to do what you can, but not your responsibility to do it all. 

Because if you lean into that, then we’re being saviors, right? Like all over again. And so, I think it’s that mindset of longevity, the mindset of prioritization, the mindset Set of not seeking. This is the expert opinion. This is the best practice. This is the white paper on what you’re supposed to do to do a, B, and C. 

I want us to lean into imagination. I want us to lean into innovation. I want us to lean into it, I’m going to do another. Asian liberation and what that looks like for us. I want us to have the mindset of not talking to each other about what the best practices are for certain sectors. I want us to talk with community developers. 

I want to talk to abolitionists. I want us to talk to activists, like that sense of, uh, groundbreaking. What are we going to do? What are we going to like, how are we going to shift this? I want us to think about movement work in volunteer engagement. And how can we change our mindsets to look at this as a civil right, right? 

To look at this, like the, the civil rights movement was seeped in volunteerism. I mean, that’s what it was. Right. So, we need that back here. Today, you know, we’re also navigating the ways of being neighborly. So, I went off on a rant, but those are all the mindsets I’m thinking of. 

Tobi: Hey, what a great way to wrap up to call us to action. I love it. I love it. There’s so much, and I, I think a lot of times, I mean, we don’t even know, I think going back to being neighborly, you’re not neighborly because you’re looking for an outcome. You’re neighborly because, and you neighbor because it’s just the right thing to do and it’s your way of being. 

Yes. And as you are neighboring, others learn to neighbor, and others reflect neighboring on you. You can just kick it off, you know? I mean, you think about anytime you move into a new neighborhood, and someone comes and does something nice for you, then you reciprocate because that’s the human, that’s a, it’s in our DNA to reciprocate. 

It’s part, it’s how we survived as a species is we have to be reciprocal and collaborative. Otherwise, we wouldn’t have survived. It’s working with human nature to be neighborly. It’s not against human nature. That’s why it doesn’t feel like. feel good when we’re divisive, for most of us, it does not feel good. 

It creates anxiety for most humans, human beings. So, we’re not, you know, you know, disturbed mentally or whatever they are, you know, for most of us being in conflict does not feel good. Being divisive does not feel good. So, I think neighboring is. Working with human nature. And I think it is something that we can commit to even though we may not know of an outcome 

And we, we are in the outcome. I don’t think most, you know, yes, there’s a cumulative outcome of all the stars in the universe and all the individual acts of kindness and all that. But there’s also things that happen where we’re just neighborly to somebody in a moment and we have no idea of the impact it has on them. 

Absolutely. We can just trust and have faith that it has.  

Breauna: We can just trust and have faith that it has, you know, something that you, you know, just brought up. I think it’s really, it’s really critical when we’re thinking about that reciprocalness of it, I think oftentimes in volunteer spaces, our currency can be how thankful and the gratitude of communities towards us because of us doing quote unquote, the good work 

Right. And really. Working to separate ourselves from the affirmation of the thank you. I think it’s important. I don’t mean thank yous are not important. I mean that if you didn’t get the thank you, do you still see it as a liberatory practice to be able to come and. And help and partner. And so I think that it’s important that we should disconnect ourselves in that way fueling us to do the next thing versus it’s a part of being to just do the thing. 

And then lastly, when you were talking about, you know, the neighboring part, I think so much of the American DNA is built on the white picket fence. Oh, hey, how are you? I’m good. This is the American dream. And I say when it comes to neighboring, it’s not about this being nice, right? It’s, it’s not this nicety. I’ve met plenty of nice racist people. Like, I, they are so nice, like, I’ve, I’ve met them.  

Tobi: Yeah, friendly. We like to call it the South people. They, in the South, oh, in the South, people are so friendly. Yes, they are friendly, but not always.  

Breauna: Right, so it’s not who you are. So, it’s not this, it’s not this, and I come from a community of, of, of folks where, we pass each other in the niceties. Hey, how are you doing? I’m good. How are you? But there is this innate feeling right of stereotype of racism of whatever ism that comes out in the body. And so, what I want people to walk away with is that neighboring is what we’ve talked about before, that open conflict that doesn’t leave, you know, disconnection, but can re weave. 

Right. Some thoughts and values, and it’s also showing up and it’s also holding space for folks and being led in the ways that folks want to be led and not taking charge and doing it for others. And so I just want to add that nicety part that sometimes we think about American dream, picket fence. Hi, how are you? 

Very mannequin is like reflections of each other. When really neighboring is the nitty gritty downright, you know, we in this together, um, and I’m doing it because I see the value and the worth of you, and you see the value in the worth of me and we’re on this planet together. So, we have got to do some good while we’re here. 

Tobi: Excellent. That is fantastic. Breauna, this has been a fantastic conversation. I hope for those of you who stuck with us till the end, congratulations to you and thank you for listening. But you know what? I can’t see why you wouldn’t because Breauna is fantastic and what a great conversation. What a great call to action and inspiration to just start changing your viewpoint a little bit. 

Just switch your perspective a little and think about it, you just go back to it. Just any aspect of the way you’re leading volunteers or engaging volunteers or co creating outcomes with volunteers, is it neighborly in the definition that Breauna has offered us today, which is, you know, not your cookie cutter idea of neighboring. Breauna, one last question before we wrap up, what are you most excited about in the year ahead?  

Breauna: I am excited about changing my rhythms, honestly, a little bit so I can do some more neighboring towards myself. Right. So, I am excited about that. Um, I’m honestly excited. I’ve been working on a course for quite some time. 

And I feel like it’s going to be coming into fruition in the next year. So, I’m excited and looking forward towards, you know, to that. I’m looking forward to seeing my kids grow up and having more memories with them. And I’m also looking forward to Black and Brown voices being more prominent in this space. 

More marginalized voices, um, underestimated folks to really, uh, look at what this sector needs and to be able to rise to the occasion and for folks who are in this sector to be fully embracing of whatever’s to come and fully embracing of that reimagination. So that’s what I’m most looking forward to in 2025. That’s awesome.  

Tobi: Yeah. So how can people learn more about you, your work, and get in touch with you? We’ll put some links in the show notes. I know you sent me some things, but if you want to just share anything you want to shout out right now, please do.  

Breauna: Yeah, so, um, I am mostly on LinkedIn at my name, of course, Breauna Dorelus. 

My website, uh, where you can send a direct message to me also www.connectingthecause.com. I also, uh, just came out with a guidebook around volunteer opportunities. And also, uh, MLK day of service in the United States is coming up and I have a mini one-hour workshop on getting prepped for that day. That’s also on the website. And so I love connecting. I love having conversations. Yeah. Just DM me. It is me that you will be talking to. So, yeah,  

Tobi: People are always blown away when they send an email to our We Care inbox and they’re like, what is this? Tobi? Yes, it is. I actually do answer my support email. I’m not always the only one, but sometimes it’s me anyway. 

This has been a great conversation. I hope gang, as you’re listening, I hope you’re enjoying, I hope you’ve enjoyed and just been inspired to think about things, even if you could just think of one thing to do differently and really embrace. A new way forward. We have such an opportunity as, you know, we work in the nexus between community and our organization. 

We are at that point. We are at that intersection. Our volunteers are our community or are from our community, I would hope. And if not, we need to do some work around that, but we know how to work collectively. And so, I think it’s time for us to get even better at it. It’s time to challenge our organizations around it, and it’s time to really transform the way we imagine how we can work with community, because there’s so much more that can be done. 

So, I want to thank everybody for listening, and I want to thank Breauna for being here. Gang, we will be here next time, same time, same place, next week on The Volunteer Nation, so we will see you there. Take care, everybody.