170 – My Top Takeaways from Giving USA 2025

July 10, 2025

Episode #170: My Top Takeaways from Giving USA 2025

In this episode of Volunteer Nation, Tobi Johnson dives into the key findings from the Giving USA 2025 report and uncovers the powerful link between volunteerism and philanthropy. Tobi explores how individual donors and volunteer leaders are shaping the future of nonprofit fundraising, and why community support has never been more essential. 

Whether you’re a nonprofit leader, volunteer coordinator, or board member, you’ll walk away with actionable tips for harnessing the power of volunteers to boost giving and deepen your organization’s impact. 

Giving USA – Episode Highlights

  • [01:36] – Introduction to Philanthropy and Volunteerism  
  • [03:07] – Key Insights from the Giving USA 2025 Report  
  • [06:17] – Deep Dive into Philanthropy Data  
  • [10:44] – Volunteerism’s Role in Philanthropy  
  • [24:10] – Engaging Younger Generations in Philanthropy  
  • [28:06] – Breaking Down Silos for Better Community Engagement

Giving USA – Quotes from the Episode 

“It’s really about trust, and trust is such a hard thing lately. It’s a hard thing because it’s seemingly broken so easily—but it’s not broken easily with the people who know you.” 

“If you think about how you think about volunteers, think about how that’s very meta. Think about how you think about it will impact the way that you approach volunteers and the way you treat them.” 

Helpful Links

About the Show

Nonprofit leadership author, trainer, consultant, and volunteer management expert Tobi Johnson shares weekly tips to help charities build, grow, and scale exceptional volunteer teams. Discover how your nonprofit can effectively coordinate volunteers who are reliable, equipped, and ready to help you bring about BIG change for the better.

If you’re ready to ditch the stress and harness the power of people to fuel your good work, you’re in exactly the right place!

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Have questions or suggestions for the show? Email us at wecare@volpro.net.

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Episode #170 Transcript: My Top Takeaways from Giving USA 2025 

Tobi: Hey, welcome to the Volunteer Nation Podcast, bringing you practical tips and big ideas on how to build, grow, and scale volunteer talent. I’m your host, Tobi Johnson, and if you rely on volunteers to fuel your charity cause membership or movement, I made this podcast just for you. Welcome everybody. To another episode of The Volunteer Nation Podcast. 

I hope your summer is going well. We are in the Pacific Northwest. We are loving our property. We spent an entire weekend pruning. Fruit trees, and I know it’s not the right time to prune, but we, they needed pruning and so we pruned them. We’ve been sampling some of the fruits that we’ve been growing, some of the cherries and some of the blueberries. 

It’s lovely. Just en enjoying every bit of what the summer in Western Washington brings just blue skies. Kind of temperate temperatures. I built some raised beds in my garden. I’ve got vegetables going, I’m planting from seed, I’m planting from starts. It’s all fun. So, we’re just having a lovely summer and it’s just giving me a great sense of calm and just a little bit slowing down just a little and just really stop taking about life in general. 

It’s nice to have the time to do that. But I also like to do my podcast. So, let’s talk about what we’re going to talk about today, which is about philanthropy, and I want to talk about the connections between volunteerism and philanthropy based on my top takeaways from the Giving USA 2025 report. The Giving USA Foundation has just released its giving USA 2025. 

Report. It’s an annual report they’ve been doing for decades. They do it with Indiana University’s, Lilly Family School of Philanthropy. I’ll link to where you can find more information about this report, but it’s really the bellwether for folks who are involved in fundraising. Now, some of you are involved in fundraising, but many of you are not. 

It helps folks get a sense of what’s happening in terms of donations. And there’s a lot of connection between volunteerism and financial contributions, and not all of that was acknowledged. I watched a webinar on the results of this report, and it got me thinking. It brought up a lot of questions. There was a little bit of an acknowledgement in that webinar about the role of volunteers in fundraising, but I want to talk even deeper about what are the relationships between volunteerism and fundraising, but also what are the opportunities that are coming up, and what do these data tell us about our communities? And so, there’s, first, the top line here is that there was good news. 

Now giving USA 2025 is really looking at the giving statistics and behavior in 2024. So, it’ll be very interesting given the turbulent 2025, we were halfway through. It’ll be very interesting next year to see what giving USA 2026 brings. But for now, we had a lot of, stock market was very strong last year. 

And giving to most nonprofit sub-sectors rose. In last year’s results, there was an estimated 592.5 billion given to the US charities in 2024. That total giving, I. Grew about 6.3% in current dollars, 3.3% when adjusted for inflation. And the giving USA folks really attribute that to a star, a strong stock market and GDP growth that helped fuel this as well as obviously the work of all the fundraisers out there who are doing this work. 

Spending time commitment skills on building connections with communities. For the first time in three years total, giving outpaced inflation, and it wasn’t the highest total giving, but it has been similar to 40 year averages in terms of its growth. So, five per 5.5% growth over year with 2.7% adjusted for inflation. 

So. It’s in alignment. 2024 was in alignment with the long-term trends in giving. Now the biggest, largest amount of giving happened in 2021, and so we were almost back to that level, but not quite there yet. But this isn’t a huge, there hasn’t been a big downturn last. There wasn’t a big downturn in giving last year. 

I wanna talk a little bit more about what. Characterizes this type of giving or what happened with where the money was coming from and where the money was going. And then after the break, I also want to ask some questions that came up in my mind and maybe offer some insights into what I was thinking while I was listening to the results from giving USA 2025. 

So first off, which I think might surprise you, is that despite. The discussions we have around philanthropy, certainly we have had, we’ve had community foundations on the podcast. We’ve talked with, uh, we’ve talked about giving circles. We did Episode Volunteer Nation episode 60 on Giving Circles in Collective Philanthropy with Sarah Loma Lean. So, we’ve talked about philanthropy and giving in the past on the pod, but this year this, these data really struck a chord in me because it really gave me some aha moments. 

So, I hope that maybe it’ll give you some aha moments too. So first, let’s talk about who gives. Okay? So. Individual giving comprises two thirds of all giving. So that’s right. Two thirds, 66% of all the fundraising dollars raised by organizations. Now, this doesn’t count contracts, you know, federal contracts or fee for service revenue. 

This is just giving, who is making donations and six, two thirds of. All donations to nonprofits come from individuals. In addition, another 8% come from bequests. So, bequests are, hey, in my estate planning, when I pass away, I’d like to give gift X numbers of dollars to X, Y, Z nonprofit that I want to support from my estate. 

So, if you think about, that’s a kind of individual giving as well, isn’t it? In terms of, and again, that individual giving was at an all-time high in 2021. It continues to be about 2% of the share of disposable income. So, it has that amount that individuals are giving hasn’t changed over the years. 

It’s basically, on average, 2% of folk’s disposable income. Now, you may be wondering about mega donors. What about those people that we always hear about in the newspaper? They’re uber rich, have pl plenty of money and they are giving to nonprofits. And so those folks, the mega donors and. In, in giving USA’s terms, mega donors are 600 million and above, so they give 600 million and above every year to charity. 

Those mega donors only comprise 3% of the entire six, 6% of the individuals who are giving. So, we may think that because they get a lot of airtime in the media around their donations, but they are not the ones driving the train. The P 66% are just people just like you and me, just regular folks that are giving to charity. 

And so, our communities are driving our nonprofits well. What about foundations? What about community foundations and national foundations? Well foundations, their giving went up 2.4%, but less than about. Negative 0.5% when adjusted for inflation. So, it’s been about flat if you adjust for inflation, and they comprise about 19%. 

So, one out of $5 that go to nonprofits is from foundations. So, it’s interesting, a lot of concern around foundations and grant writing, et cetera, and I hear a lot of folks asking, where can I write a grant to get money for my volunteer management? Costs and my salary. Or our salary to hire somebody. And I think, well, foundations are only giving you one out of $5. 

Is that the place to look? Maybe not. And I know we’ve talked with Jennifer Angelo on her call from Points of Light, and I’ll post a link to this one as well. That points of light are calling for foundations to step up and give more, which is great. We don’t have any problem with that, but. I always think it’s interesting because it’s really the individuals that are giving donations. 

What about corporations? What about the corporate folks that we try to engage in our nonprofits? Well, corporations give about 7%. Now they are on the uptick. The percentage has 9.1 up in terms of the amount they’re giving, but 6% when adjusted for inflation. Now, corporate giving is the type of giving. That is the highest over the pa. 

It’s has the highest increase and it’s on par with individual giving. So, interesting to see that. When we think about giving, we often think it’s all about corporations. It’s all about the mega donors. It’s all about foundations, but the people who are really driving the revenue in terms of. 

Fundraising revenue. Donor revenue is individuals, people just like you and me, 66%. So, when we think about that makes me start to think about volunteerism, right? Because who are volunteers in general? Individuals. Now we do have corporate volunteers. We do have other kinds of volunteers, student service, learning volunteers, national service placements, et cetera. 

But most volunteers are just regular folks from the community. So where are people giving their money? This is another interesting conversation and something to look at. So, religion and faith-based causes. Number one. 23% of all money given is given to faith-based causes or religious causes. Now, that’s up 1.9%, but down 1%. 

When adjusted for inflation for the first time, human services have climbed to second. Spot at 14% of all giving goes to human services organizations. That’s up 5%, up 2% when adjusted for inflation education. Another high interest for funders, especially donors, I should say, up three, 13.2%, up 9.9% went adjusted for inflation. 

So, interesting. So, these, those are the top three. Religion, human services, and education. Now, there’s a few that are starting to climb significantly. One is international affairs. It’s up 17.7%, 14.3% when adjusted for inflation and international affairs. Comprises about 6% of giving environment and animals. 

It comprises only about 3% of all giving, but it’s up 7.7%. And when adjusted for inflation, 4.6%, arts, culture and humanities up 9.5% adjusted for inflation, 6.4%. So. We have a, a shifting landscape of where people want to invest their funds. And remember, on average 2% of a household’s disposable income on average. 

It’s been very consistent over the years that people are donating. So a lot of questions come up when I look at these data and I hear about these results, and one of the first questions that comes up, and actually, you know what, I’m going to take a quick break and after the break we’re going to talk about these questions that have come up for me and some of the insights that came up. 

So. Let’s take a pause for a quick break, and after that I’ll continue with more on the giving USA report and we’ll talk about some of my top takeaways and some of the big questions that I think we need to answer as a sector. So don’t go anywhere. I’ll be right back.  

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Okay, we’re back. Let’s continue our chat about giving USA 2025 and what clues it offers, volunteer fueled organizations, and how they can thrive in these turbulent times. I think that’s really what it’s all about. How can we work better together? I. Within our organizations to ensure that we are fully funded and that we are fully staffed. 

Those are the two things that we need, and that we have full commitment of our community behind us. Right? Those are the important, most important things. So, let’s, and of course, I mean, it goes without saying, obviously, that are missions. Are being met, right? And that we’re doing them in a way that really works for our communities. 

We don’t often think about that, and funding does have an impact on that as well. Let’s look at the questions. I think about the questions a little bit that came up for me. One was, as I was listening to this webinar, this report out of giving USA 2025, I thought, how can volunteerism positively impact levels of nonprofit giving? 

How can volunteerism positively impact levels of nonprofit giving? And I started to think about this because organizations cannot do without funds. There is some point where you need a budget. That’s a reality. First off, I think that we need to acknowledge volunteerism as part and parcel of philanthropy. 

I think when we hear the word philanthropy, we think of giving dollars. We think of foundation dollars, we think of fundraising. We think of the development department. We think of leaders in our communities and in large organizations as give lots of money, but we don’t consider the local community. 

Volunteer is part of and parcel of philanthropy, and I think we need to change that mindset. So, think of yourself at your organization. How do you view volunteerism? Is it as free labor or is it as community philanthropy? And if you think about how you think about volunteers, think about how that’s very meta. 

Think about how you think about it will impact the way that you approach volunteers and the way you treat them. How do you view volunteerism at your organization? Is it as free labor as a workforce, or is it as community philanthropy, an act of community philanthropy that you are sparking community philanthropy through a variety of ways. 

One is volunteerism. A second thing obviously you can do is launch fundraising campaigns that are based on community and organization needs that volunteers identify. I said obviously, but it’s not obvious to a lot of folks, so I shouldn’t say, I shouldn’t be using the word obviously. Because it’s not that obvious, right? 

Although once you hear it, it’s kind of like no duh. Right? If you’re going to launch fundraising campaigns that you want your volunteers to support. Either in making asks or donating from their own household savings, then perhaps we should ask them what they think the organization needs. What are the most pressing needs or what are some of the most pressing community needs? 

Now it, this obviously shouldn’t, and I shouldn’t say obviously. This shouldn’t be a free for all focused on your, your area of impact. So, if you’re an organization that tutors kids, you might ask volunteers. When it comes to tutoring kids, what are the biggest needs you’re seeing? You might learn a lot, especially from those folks that are right on the front lines, delivering your services. 

So, another thing we can do, how can volunteerism positively impact levels of nonprofit giving work with community foundations on how investing in volunteer engagement skills and capacity results in larger community support and a support network for an organization. And it really does lift all boats. 

And we’ve had great conversations with a couple of community foundations. One’s the Lady Foundation. One is the Community Foundation for a Greater Richmond, and I will post those links. My work with the Community Foundation for a Greater Richmond. We talk about that as well as the ways that they are building capacity in the Richmond, Virginia area. 

And it’s fantastic. So, if you want to hear more about how volunteer foundations are focusing on volunteerism, you can listen to that one. So, we’ve got to work more closely with these community foundations so that they can see. How skills and capacity building and volunteerism can help lift all boats. Lift the amount of dollars an organization can raise, lift the number of lives it can reach, lift, the amount of community connections it has. 

There’s so many things that volunteerism can do. So that’s one area of thought. How can volunteerism positively impact levels of nonprofit giving? There’s several. Those are only a few. Another question that came to mind was how can we scale the volunteer ecosystem at every organization to spark sustained community giving? 

So not just a one and done, but how could we sustain this over time? And I think it’s really about working in community building, loyalty and commitment. When we are in relationship with the people around us who want to support us, one of the wonderful ways to do that is through. Volunteer leadership. We can create volunteer leadership or volunteer leadership ecosystem through all kinds of means. 

You can set up youth advisory groups, young alumni groups, campaign committees, advisory councils, mentoring programs. You can. Set up groups of invested stakeholders like parents, families, members, carers, and others. So, there’s lots of ways to start building volunteer leadership and an ecosystem of leadership depending on your cause impact area. 

Right. Volunteer leadership can come from those you serve or those who benefit from your services. Lots of ways to build in leadership, and as people build leadership, they build knowledge of your organization, they’re able to speak to it in, in a more informed way, and they’re able to help you identify and get out there and raise funds. 

So, these groups aren’t necessarily fundraising groups. They can be a campaign, a capital campaign committee can be a fundraising group, but they also, as they learn more about your organization, they’ll fall more and more in love with it, of course, because your organization’s awesome, isn’t it? And want to help you get the word out about your needs. 

The other thing, and it goes, maybe goes without saying, but I’m going to say it anyway. Invest in the skill building. How can we scale volunteer ecosystems to spark sustained community giving? Well, we need to invest in skill building of all staff who engage with volunteers. We need to make sure that we are the best in class, the most exceptional place to volunteer. 

Because if you’re not that place. People aren’t going to want to really spark or get out there and make asks or champion you. It just won’t because they don’t believe the relationship is that strong. So, we must make sure the volunteer experience is exceptional, so that relationship is strong. You’re showing and exceptional volunteer experience is how you show volunteers that they really matter. 

That it’s a two-way street. And so, it’s fantastic to be able to do that and to invest time and money. And it does take time and money and it takes skill. And so, there are strategies to do that. We just finished a two-week volunteer Supervision Essentials course. We had folks who were volunteer managers. 

We also had other team members who supervised volunteers or meet volunteers who wanted to learn how to lead better. And it was a fantastic group. We had a great time. So hopefully at some point in the future I’ll offer that. Again, not sure when, probably not this year, but it’s a great way. 

So, we’ll be offering other ways to build skills. As we move forward, and we already do through our Volunteer Pro Impact lab. So, let’s talk about the third question that this giving USA 2025 report brought up in my mind. How do we engage younger people in philanthropy as a whole? So, I know the fundraising folks are very. 

Interested in how do we get young people involved in giving? Well, I think sometimes volunteerism is the pathway to financial contributions or financial giving. If you think about young people who are straight out of college or in college, or even in high school, they may not have the financial means to make contributions now, but if they’re involved as a volunteer. 

Most likely at some point when the time comes and they have made a career and they’re making a little disposable income, that they will think back on the time that they have spent volunteering and think about the best volunteering experiences they’ve had, the deepest understanding of a causes needs, and they will be more likely to make a contribution. 

We know that volunteers donate more than non-volunteers Sometimes. Some research says as much as five times more than non-volunteers and many, the majority research has shown about 76% will donate where they volunteer. So, these are facts that the research is a little older. I, if I can find it, I will post a link to it, our volunteers as donors. 

I have a blog post on that. I’ll try to find it and link. To it. There hasn’t, as far as I know, there hasn’t been any recent research, but this is. In some ways it makes sense, right? The more I know about an organization, if I’m enjoying myself, the more I want to give there. Another thing you can do. How can, how do we engage younger people in philanthropy as a whole? 

Emphasize cause impact and mission moments in your messaging. Share stories. So talk about what’s happening, how people are being transformed, how people are transforming themselves, and. Those stories are best told by volunteers, honestly, about the mission moments that they see. So of course, we need to make sure we’re making sure we’re protecting people’s privacy, that kind of thing. 

There are some things that you’ve got to know about storytelling, but storytelling as a strategy is a good one. Really solid. Helps people really understand on a human level what you do. Another way, how do we engage younger people in philanthropy, co-produce projects create leadership development opportunities. 

I talked about it earlier, but you know, young people want to roll up their sleeves and get engaged and when they have a say or a partial say, or they’re in a collaborative environment, now, not everybody, but some people, they will want to. Become part of that, and that can be the seeds that grow philanthropy for that person. 

Another thing you can do is lean into improving online fundraising and volunteer recruitment strategies, so we know that. Online funding. Fundraising has risen dramatically over the past four or five years. The percentage in 2020, I think the percentage of online giving was about 12%. I don’t know what it was for 2024, but that’s a sharp increase in. 

The times before that we’re around 8%, 5% of all funding. So, it’s really people are used to purchasing, especially since the pandemic. People are used to purchasing things online, so why not giving as well? And our volunteer recruitment pipelines online need to be smooth. They need to be easy to navigate, they need to be simplified. 

Okay, my fourth question. How do we remove barriers to all forms of giving? So first, and that kind of, how do we do that? I think in the big picture, we need to remove the silos between the development department and the volunteer services department or your fundraisers. Your volunteer managers need to make sure there aren’t silos between those two groups because often they are talking to the same people. 

So, there’s several different ways to do that, and if you are working together, I. I was just on a call with somebody earlier and I said, there’s wisdom in lots of people, right? The more people, the greater the wisdom. And so, if you can bring the, develop the smart people in the development department together with the smart people and the volunteer services department together, they can start to really brainstorm for volunteers and donors, some of which are the same. 

How do we remove all barriers to all forms of giving? So, get in kind, giving, financial, giving, volunteering. How do we remove. All form barriers to all forms. We’re going to do this together. We’re not going to figure these out separately. How do we, obviously this approach is one way to remove silos. Also, you might decide, you know what? 

We’re going to host these two functions within the same department. That department’s going to be community engagement. So that might be the way you go about it, just functionally, structurally, another way an absolute must have in today’s world, share databases or integrate your software. Make sure that you understand how people are related to your organization and how they’re supporting it, whether again, it’s in-kind volunteering or financial contributions. 

Build strategic plans together. I. Between development and volunteer services and work through a ladder of giving and impact with coordinated asks at each step. So, decide the journey of a single context and try to figure out how to together you will build a relationship with that person. I remember my aunt received a, an invitation to a volunteer recognition event at a hospice where she was volunteering. 

And that same week, later in the week, she received a fundraising request, an ask letter from the development department. And clearly those two departments were talking to each other because it made her angry. Because she told me about it and she said, can you believe that they want to thank us? But then in the middle of the thanking, they want to ask us for more money. 

That is so rude. And I said, well, I’m pretty sure they’re not trying to be rude. I think they’re just not talking to each other. You do you. But I’m pretty sure they don’t have it on their mind to not value you as a supporter. But we do want to think about how we are working with our supporters, how are we building community with our supporters as an organization, not as a department. 

You see the difference. Your supporters don’t see all your silos. They see your organization and the individuals that they work with, so you, unless they’re on the inside doing high leadership tasks for you, they don’t see those invisible walls that you see. So you’ve got to get rid of them. One way you can do that is recognizing and appreciating donors and volunteers together. 

What a wonderful thought. Have an annual event where you bring volunteers, your donors, everybody, and you celebrate together your organization. Isn’t that a wonderful way? And I think it’s just a way to break down those silos. The other thing is just to track and report cash contributions in kind donations and volunteer impact together in one report. 

That way, you’re talking about supporter or community engagement, and you’re talking about the wide range of ways that your network of people, network of support, lends a hand to your organization to help you meet its mission. I think we’ve got to get there, folks, because that is sophistication in leadership. 

Again, the community doesn’t see all these differences within our sector. Only we do, right? So, the bottom line here for all these questions and my interest in giving USA 2025 is a big question, A final few questions to ask. The bottom line is around trust. It’s around how do we build relationships with people in our community? 

There was so much discussion of relational fundraising. And I’m like relational fundraising or we’ve been doing like relational forever in the nonprofit, in in the volunteer sector. We can help you with that. We know that, right? So how do you build greater trust in the sector and your organization with all stakeholders and all supporters, right? 

It’s really about trust, and trust is such a hard thing lately. It’s a hard thing because it’s broken seem. It’s seemingly broken so easily, but it’s not broken easily with the people who know you, the people who’ve been around, the people who’ve supported you, the people who know you are in it with them, and they’re in it with you. 

Those people are not the people that. Are easy to break trust, and those are the people that can champion you as well and will champion you. So, we’ve got to continue to lean into trust. The second bottom line question is how you take an active part in building community amongst those who are. About what you do rather than on focusing on transactional relationships. 

So, for those people who love, they’re all about it. They all understand it. They may not even have yet taken a step forward to help you or to support you or to get into collaboration with you. But how do you take an active part in building community with those folks as a convener of people who care about the same things rather than. 

Focusing on transactional relationships. Like I, when I used to be the fundraising chair on a board I was on, I would say donors are not ATM machines. You just don’t go walk up and put your cash card in and ask for money. That’s not how it works. So same with volunteers. Volunteers are, that is not a transactional relationship if we treat volunteers like day labor workers. 

That’s what we’re going to get in terms of commitment, a single day of commitment, right? So, for long-term sustainability and to help our organizations thrive, we really must think about, first, how do we in within our organization, work better towards. Building community and connections with a network of supporters, whether they’re donating in kind, whether they’re contributing finances, or whether they’re contributing their time or all of the above. 

We need to do this in not in a siloed way. We need to do this collectively and we need to focus on building trust and connection. Those are the kind of key things that I was thinking about when I was listening to giving USA 2025. I really was heartened to see that in the US communities are still supporting nonprofits. We have not seen a dip in the support of nonprofits, but we haven’t seen a huge increase as well, and we can’t assume that younger generations and younger people are going to step up and into this role that others have taken on in supporting nonprofits. There is a lot at stake right now. 

There are changes in shifts in federal funding, which may impact shifts and changes in state funding. And we need to start really looking to the people who have been there with us the most, and that is our 66%, our two thirds of all of our revenue. Those individual donors, I would say 3% of the mega donors that probably aren’t like you and me, but let’s say the 63% of the rest of us just regular folk wanting to support nonprofits. So, I hope this has inspired you to think about really working together within your organizations to make sure that every experience from every supporter or with every supporter is exceptional. They deserve no less for what they’re helping us do, and it’s a wonderful opportunity to be part of a mission that’s moving forward. 

It can be so transformational, both for ourselves and the folks who are benefiting from our missions. I. Again, I hope it’s inspired you. If you like this episode, will you share it with a friend who might also need a little inspiration? Share it with your development department. If you’re a volunteer manager, share this with somebody in your development department. 

If you’re in a development department, share it with somebody in your volunteer management or volunteer services department, or your volunteer manager who may be a department of one, which is very common. If you’re an executive director, share it with both and say, Hey, let’s start working together. Let’s start working in a more purposeful way towards our sustainability and the work on behalf of the people we serve. 

Alright, so please share it if you would, and if you’d like to give us a rating. We love those five star ratings. I’m telling you. Just scroll down and give us that five star. I would love to have that. That helps us with the algorithm and helps. Other people find us who may not know about us yet that could benefit from learning about community engagement, civic engagement, and volunteerism, and that’s what we’re all about. 

All right, everybody – have a fantastic week. I am going to enjoy a little bit of the outdoors this evening, and I’ll see you next week. Same time, same place on the Volunteer Nation. Take care, everybody.